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MSV in Paadavaa Duet Paadalai - A Kalaignar TV programme
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parthavi



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 705
Location: Chennai

PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Prof,

You have made an interesting observation about nothing being at stake for any of us. This instantly brings to limelight the high stakes the master had when he was composing these songs, about which we are able to discuss leisurely! In fact, after my posting I was wondering how far I (or anyone) could be right in interpreting the meanings of our master's immortal works. In a way it is a pastime. In another way, it is a means of experiencing the beauty and delivery of pure pleasure of His (the capitalization is not by mistake!) compositions.

I believe that it is you, more than anyone else, who have been keeping the forum alive during the times when posts become as rare as trees in city roads. I am sure all the members will endorse my view. Thank you for your commending my efforts.
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MSV, Un isai kettaal puvi asainthaadum, idhu iraivan arul aagum.
http://msv-music.blogspot.in/
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parthavi



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 705
Location: Chennai

PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear SRS,

I am continuing the discussion in the same good spirit with the awareness that perceptions could be different. Yet, sharing one's perceptions can be enriching.

The whole discussion emanated from Suhasini's query about TMS modulating his voice for Sivaji and MGR and MSV's response that he composed for the character and not for the actor. I wanted to point out that he did tailor his composition to suit the voice of the actor, a nuance for which the credit went to TMS in an unfair way.

I have found such subtle differences in Susila's voice also. Compare Susila's voice in 'andru oomaip pennallo' sung for Savitri and 'kodiyasainthathum' 'Yarukku maappillai yaaro' and 'Paarhthaal pasi theerum' for Saroja Devi in the same film (Paarhthaal pasi theerum). I think there is a marked difference in Susila's voice when she sings for these two artistes, which should be due to MSV's (unconscious) awareness that the 'characters' are to be played by the respective artistes. To this extent, MSV's assertion that he did not compose for the actor seems to be incorrect.

I think character and situation are two different things. You have mentioned that 'oruvar manathai oruvar ariya' was tuned for a postman's character. What is unique about a postman's character? It is a song sung in a carefree mood (the whistling may also have been introduced to capture the mood) The same song could have been set for a porter with slight modification of the lines like 'oruvar sumaiyai oruvar kuraikka udhavum sevai idhu' (with due apologies to Kavignar)

I think keeping the actor's voice in mind would have happened only with the leading actors Sivaji, MGR and Gemini and to a lesser extent with actors like Muththuraman and Jaishankar. This might not be the case with actors like Kalyan Kumar etc. due to practical limitations.

It is not my case that MSV took the voice of the actor into account in each and every song but listening to the songs definitely makes me feel that he has done this with major actors. I have already cited the song 'siriththaalum kanneer varum' in which he has made TMS's voice sound different to suit Gemini's. This is a duet song with no character or sequence uniqueness.

There can't be two opinions (not in our group, in any case) about the extraordinary attention paid by MSV to the story, character, situation, lyrics etc, while composing a song. I have never discounted this in any of my posts.

I would request you to reexamine the assertion in your final sentence 'never, never for an actor' by pondering over the question whether MSV would have composed 'Avalukkenna' the same way if this song was for 'Raaman eththanai Raamanadi' to be sung by Sivaji playing the role of an actor (as Nagesh did in Server Sundaram)
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P Rengaswami (9381409380)
MSV, Un isai kettaal puvi asainthaadum, idhu iraivan arul aagum.
http://msv-music.blogspot.in/
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madhuraman



Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1226
Location: navimumbai

PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:42 am    Post subject: How to register Reply with quote

Dear Friends,
MSV squarely beats us all ends up. Yes, look at the following cases where an on -screen person appeared first in a movie and MSV made it his forte to make it appear that the voice gels with the emotion of the 'on-screen artiste'.
'Oruvan kAdhalan' veNNira Aadai Nirmala Srikanth [PS PBS]
'enna enna vArthaigaLo, AmmammA, KaNNan ennum [PS] for JJ while for the same JJ LRE for 'nee enbadhenna'.
SO MANY CASES KEEP ARISING. Unable to bear the trick that MSV avails of I asked MSV in Nov.2008 as to how he manages voice matching or is there some tuners in recording. "In our days everything was original. I JUST USED TO INDICATE THE LEVEL TO HOLD THE VOICE at 1 kattai, 1/2 kattai more etc, invariably it fetched the effect. It is a punishment to advise the singer to change voice without risk of long term disturbance to [s]he" -MSV.
So, MSV relies on his judgement partly on sequence and more on consequence.
Thanks for the opportunity.
Warm regards K.Raman Madurai.
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madhuraman



Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1226
Location: navimumbai

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:51 am    Post subject: How to Reply with quote

Dear Mr S R S and Mr. Rangaswami,
By design or desire you have rightly brought the much needed Discussion under this thread .So, there need be no winding up of the same. Perhaps the topic can spread to other related domains of song composition /orchestration and the like.Incidentally, I don't intend stepping in to moderate any proceeding as there are official moderators and neither do I subscribe to the idea that people of your acumen need any one setting the course of arguments. All the same, at times I am unable to hide my opinion, lest I should lose a golden moment in the discussion.Nothing more. Please keep going, so that the forum keeps kicking.
Warm regards K.Raman Madurai
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N Y MURALI



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 920
Location: CHENNAI

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr. SRS,
You have mentioned that
'The choice of singers for actors never precedes the composition'.
I disagree with you in this aspect as many times MSV himself mentioned that he will keep in mind who will sing the song at the time of composition. His famous quote in many interview 'kuruvi thalayil panangaayai vaikka koodadhu' is about this aspect.

There is a story that MSV after the composition waited for 3 days for PBS who was out of station. In between when the director and the producer wanted it to be completed with other singer MSV told that then the song will be recomposed to suit that new singer.

Many examples are there that he always composes on the base scale for Jesudas, higher scale for TMS, TRM etc.

In fact there is a proof for this in the recent programme 'Padavaa Duet Paadalai'. He was composing the tune for which the judges Magadhi and Sriram were to sing. He told them that he was composing in 4th kattai and was asking Sriram whether his voice would go to higher scale daivadham.

N Y MURALI
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