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Inspirations on other Composers from MSV's songs
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S.Balaji
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:21 am    Post subject: Ambigaye Eswariye - Engamma magarasi ellam un kairasi Reply with quote

This is an apparent inspiration stemming out of the theme Amman paattu in villages… so , when the starting song AMBIGAYE ISWARIYE appears, the audience would roar in approval … the song comes in the super hit movie of Nadigar Thilagam , Pattikada pattanama – a 1972 product… and it also set a benchmark for such genre…

The late 70s Music director Chandrabose , who himself made his debut voice through the folkish Endee muthammaa ..must have been deeply impressed and inspired …. The movie Machaana paatheengala which came in the end 70s has a similar village Amman song wherein there is a group dance song…the MD promptly has applied the pallavi of the original and carved out a super hit song …Yes…this song too was very popular in Air India Radio..

The similarties here are two fold …. The song situation and the Pallavi itself is a clear indicator of the latter deriving from the original…

Here is the original Ambigaye Iswariye :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPc8fMN4094

And here the song : Engamma magarasi :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7NHh00g-zA

It appears that MSV had actually made the life of future Musicians easy by setting a trend for such category of songs !
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S.Balaji
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:54 am    Post subject: Nalladho veenai seidhen - Manadhil urudhi vendum Reply with quote

Here is one interesting inspiration which basically is out of the lyricist and the Raga applied … both are K.B.movies…. the song NALLADHOR VEENAI SEIDHEN – sung by SPB , apparently was set to Raga Tilang…. Look how the same raga takes another form through the song MANADHIL URUDHI VENDUM… sung by KJY in the movie Sindhubhairavi ! I presume , the latter must have tried to give a response to the former … Experts may question the authenticity .. if someone applies the same raga doesn’t mean its inspiration….my viewpoint is…the Lyricist, the movie maker ….and the challenge which the latter might have taken upon himself to prove a point !! end result… as fans we got 2 great songs …. Yes, the same Nalladhor veenai also was set to another form in the movie Bharathi by the same Composer ..
Coming back to raga Tilang…. There is a possibility that KB himself might have suggested to Ilayaraja to give another song in the same Raga …

Link for Nalladhor veenai seidhen :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdsCcPw4hqQ&t=6s


Link for Manadhil urudhi vendum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFfKyShYPxk
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S.Balaji
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:03 pm    Post subject: Azagan Muruganidam Aasai Vaithen - Kavidhai Kelungal Reply with quote

In Punnagai Mannan, there will be a solo dance song being performed by Revathi in an aggressive manner to prove her skills to the Hero Kamal … KAVIDHAI KELUNGAL , a fantastic song composed by Ilayaraja, the song pallavi is apparently set to Raga Jog , a Hindustani ..the song will be absolutely different from Charanam as it moves to other ragas. …. A close hearing on the pallavi gives a touch of similarity with the MSV composed AZAGAN MURUGANIDAM from the movie Panjavarna kili… interestingly, the old song also is a dance sequence , solo by Vijayalakshmi and sung by K.R.Vijaya on the background…it’s a classic , typical song which has all the essential elements of a Bharathanatyam kriti… it’s a very fast paced song and experts say its raga Thilang oriented which is another Hindustani by nature…each Raga has its inherent character… Tilang can express romance, happy mood and also some sort of yearning..

Azagan Muraganidam is a great composition which can be sung in Carnatic concerts as well… very powerful tune and orchestration …is a perfect example of MSV’s command over the Ragas

I presume Ilayaraja must have explored Raga Jog as a counter response to the original , a sort of another creation through a Hindustani rag… as the song moves on, it takes different shape ( which is not relevant for our analysis )…it’s the start which matters…

Both the songs have the G3M1PD2N2N3S in common and ofcourse Azagan Muruganidam has R2 on the higher scale once…Kavidhai kelungal start oscillates between N3SN3 and swings backwards to the middle path PM1 etc…. Azagan Muruganidam indeed has virtually the same flow of notes ….

I am captivated by the start of the Kavidhai kelungal…so also Azagan Muraganidam…both take off with lot of energy , zeal and enthusiasm…. As we hear, the pallavi, the thoughts involuntarily goes back to the former with Bharatham as the theme and high note application !

A demo on the similarities

https://soundcloud.com/user-2309600/azagan-murguganidam-kavidhai-kelungal

Azagan Muruganidam :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlxXA_3RJo4


Kavidhai kelungal :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWlAud73Wys
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S.Balaji
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject: Yen pirandhai magane - Ucchi vagundheduthu Reply with quote

An inspiration out of self inspiration !!

Movie : Baaga Pirivinai
Song : Yen Pirandhaai Magane

Movie : Rosapoo ravikkaikari
Song : Ucchi vagundheduthu

The self inspired creation of MSV - Yen pirandhai magane >>> Sodhanai mel sodhanai… A physically impaired Nadigar Thilagam, a helpless innocent man ….a child is born to him…he is already dependent on others for his survival…so he laments on the birth of another dependent …the helplessness, anxiety , sadness all converge into a sober song….Yen pirandhaai magane…

Long after that , during early 70s, the theme virtually takes a rebirth in the form of Sodhanai mel sodhanai…. A tearful song by a helpless Father upon losing his dear wife besides being bitten by a riffraff , useless son…again, the theme is the similar…

Lets see how the original must have inspired Ilayaraja…. Rosapoo Ravikkaikari was the 100th movie of Sivakumar and a musically successful one for Ilayaraja.. The movie has a sad , sober version sung by SPB ..Ucchi vagundheduthu…. The situation is …. The naïve villager’s wife is being rumoured to be having clandestine relationship with another ..this annoys him…He loves her so dearly that he refuses to acknowledge the bad news being floating around…. He vents his frustration, helplessness and concern through a sober, sad song….

IR must have been deeply impressed by the supreme level of sadness being displayed by TMS on the Yen pirandhai magane…. So, he must have thought of applying for a slightly different situation but theme remaining the same…expression of sadness, helplessness…uneasiness…

Observe the pallavi…. Application of R2G2 ..back and forth and jumping to P ..coming back to G2R2 ….all these are crystal clear pointers to what was running through the Composer’s thought process while setting tune for the song….its virtually the same as in Yen pirandhaai !!

Do I need to further substantiate to emphatically say that this is another case of inspiration from the Original Master !!

Here is the song :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2arnMngHr8
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S.Balaji
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject: Poovarayum poongodiye - Maragatha vallikku manakkolam Reply with quote

This is an interesting inspiration which emanates from the old classic song POOVARAYUM POONGODIYE – Idhayathil Nee-1963 release…these years when the Duo MSV-TKR were ruling like Monarch with some scintillating tunes…. Its basically a Hero singing to his lover announcing the prospect of their wedding..the song is set to the Carnatic ragam Brindavana Saranga… it’s a melodious and captivating tune …a marvel and its being heard even today !

No wonder, any Music Director , brought up during that early 60s would have instantly fallen in love with such a tune and try to reproduce .
Long long after many years, the moment came by way of MARAGADHA VALLIKKU MANAKKOLAM- from the movie Anbulla Appa- a 1987 release and MDs- Shankar Ganesh…

Whats the situation ?… An affectionate Father singing on the occasion of wedding of his dearest daughter …

Look at the pallavi ….the R2 to P …bouncing back..touching the N3… these are exactly the notes present in the original masterpiece ! On both occasions, wedding is the common thread … the song largely is inspired on the Pallavi aspect while it takes a different shape from the Charanam…but the start is a clear lift from the Original… the approach is crystal clear…that they are apparently influenced by the majestic tune ..

A word of appreciation , Shankar –Ganesh definitely deserve…for having applied the original tune from a romatic solo to an emotional Fatherly tone on the occasion of wedding and send off …

MSV’s creations during the early 60s have resulted in reproduction, reshape, new avatar by the succeeding MDs …this song is a testimony to the unbeatable 60s !!

A demo on the original and how the pallavi has been used :

https://soundcloud.com/user-2309600/poovarayum-poonkodiye-maragatha-vallikku-manakkolam


Poovarayum poongodiye :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EqD5yBGdOM

Maragadha vallikku manakkolam :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=026qHaAnsFc
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S.Balaji
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:09 pm    Post subject: Mannavane azalaama - Raja chinna raja Reply with quote

In the 1979 release movie , Poonthalir, directed by Devaraj Mohan and MD – Ilayaraja , there is a tearful song by P.Susheela… Actually the movie itself is a tearful one .Its the story of a small kid who loses his Mother to Cancer and Father’s whereabouts unknown… A song appears after the Mother dies… I presume the Directors must have explained the scene like :

The kid will be lying in deep sleep on a road side and his Mother will appear as a Ghost along with Angels and try to console him…

So, the Composer now thinking on an ideal start note ….. and his mind must have done a quick processing whether there is any such precedence for such a situation ? …He must have zeroed in on Karpagam finally ( though the Ramu has almost similar situation ) .. Taking a clue from the classic MANNAVANE AZALAAMA …he now must have given the rhythm to the Lyricist in a different speed and the lyrics start like this :

Raja Chinna Raja poonthalire inba kaniye…..

… and he realizes that he has got a solid clue now to take off and develop it further…

Now listen to the Raja china raja…. The start notes are N3SR2G2 M1P back….…its almost similar… Mannavane starts with the Lower P and swiftly moves to SR2G2M1P and revolves around the same …this is virtually the approach for Raja china Raja… Listen to the song …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOCl2VYBnPA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nn_QDc8hsI


now you will realize that even the picturisation is almost the same !!! An image of Sujatha , the Mother appearing as a Ghost along with Angels …. In the original song, its K.R.Vijaya coming as a Ghost trying to comfort and console her husband Gemini Ganesan …the only difference is that it’s a kid here and husband there but the core theme the same… a dead woman as a Ghost trying to comfort …Heavy chorus on the background…

Ilayaraja is a very crafty Composer…he appears to have got inspired by the pallavi of Mannavane only…rest he creates a soulful song with his penchant western orchestration …the song is a teary number…A small spark is enough for someone like Ilayaraja to create another classic…

Mannavane azalaama is a reference material for ghost songs…there was no such theme existed before our Mannar could compose such a situation…its nothing but Kalaimagal’s blessings just flowed during those tune setting moments and ended up as a memorable song …a haunting tune ….

I am not going to end my analysis here….

Ilayaraja seemed to have applied the KID – MOTHER DYING AT A YOUNG AGE – LOST MOTHER theme in few more songs to come in future…

Listen to PILLAI NILA IRANDUM VELLAI NILAA … from the movie Neengal kettavai ….the tune and approach the same as the old … a grown up guy recollecting with sadness, memories of his dead Mother

Listen to KARPOORA BOMMAI ONDRU from the movie Keladi kanmani …. The similarity in tune and the kid trying to sing her Mother’s favourite song …again, a recollection of glorious moments with her Mother who passed away at a young age…

One will now note that all the above songs carry similar start notes !! …may be that the thoughts involuntarily think of the first and foremost and simply flow …..

Summarising…. Mannavane azalama…is actually the source and benchmark for ghost themes expressing sadness and helplessness or giving comfort to the aggrieved character…. The song is such a spell binding one that it had taken new new avatars through various MDs… I don’t know…it may be many…I could identify only 3…

Conclusion…. MSV used to say…ONDRILIRUNDHU INNONDRU… from One to another…. This is how Composers with great creative mindset will get inspired but make their stamp by adding their value….

Finally…. If Karpoora bommai ondru ….and Unadhu malar kodiyile … the meter and notes appear similar , don’t hit me …..
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Vatsan
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:26 pm    Post subject: Resp. Reply with quote

Balaji, good list !!!!

I would personally map "karpoora bommai onru" to C Ramachandra's "dheere se aaja re" available here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h94Qg1g-JI ...which had been used earlier by R Sudharsanam in "poovAgi kAyAgi" but beautifully.

Again, "En piranthai maganE"'s to me, gave rise to "thenpANdi seemaiyilE" with a melancholic lullaby of sorts being the common theme. IR has not repeated a single phrase but the source looms large in one's mind when IR's song happens.

"vAnuyarntha sOlaiyil E" is also inspired by "ehhanayO piravi petru" by TR Papa in Arunagirinathar, the overall flow and the gait of the song suggests so for sure.

"engE nAn kANbEn" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWrAdYuB--U is clearly inspired from "kallellAm mANikka" , the choice of scale, humming and all

Clearly "azhagu malarAda", the spirited wail of a widow referred to its reined in version in "malai pozhuthin mayakkathhilE", here only the choice of raaga to depict the sentiments of a young widow being the "inspiration" factor.


"manamagaLE manamagaLE vAsal thANdi " from Devar Magan is about a pregnant woman centric festivity. If this does not ring a bell, recall the Sudha Saveri Shehnai piece that is played often in the second half of Devar Magan which also occurs as a part of this song. Roll back the years now, a similar piece is played in "manjaL pootti malargaL sootti" in Karnan, yet another song depiction with a pregnant woman being the central theme with the similarity in the choice of raaga underlining the inspiration factor.
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S.Balaji
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Resp. Reply with quote

Vatsan wrote:
Balaji, good list !!!!

I would personally map "karpoora bommai onru" to C Ramachandra's "dheere se aaja re" available here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h94Qg1g-JI ...which had been used earlier by R Sudharsanam in "poovAgi kAyAgi" but beautifully.

Again, "En piranthai maganE"'s to me, gave rise to "thenpANdi seemaiyilE" with a melancholic lullaby of sorts being the common theme. IR has not repeated a single phrase but the source looms large in one's mind when IR's song happens.

"vAnuyarntha sOlaiyil E" is also inspired by "ehhanayO piravi petru" by TR Papa in Arunagirinathar, the overall flow and the gait of the song suggests so for sure.

"engE nAn kANbEn" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWrAdYuB--U is clearly inspired from "kallellAm mANikka" , the choice of scale, humming and all

Clearly "azhagu malarAda", the spirited wail of a widow referred to its reined in version in "malai pozhuthin mayakkathhilE", here only the choice of raaga to depict the sentiments of a young widow being the "inspiration" factor.


"manamagaLE manamagaLE vAsal thANdi " from Devar Magan is about a pregnant woman centric festivity. If this does not ring a bell, recall the Sudha Saveri Shehnai piece that is played often in the second half of Devar Magan which also occurs as a part of this song. Roll back the years now, a similar piece is played in "manjaL pootti malargaL sootti" in Karnan, yet another song depiction with a pregnant woman being the central theme with the similarity in the choice of raaga underlining the inspiration factor.


Oops !!! many many !

Azagu malar = Malai pozudhin.... as a conceptual link is a revelation to me !! great find Boss !

Enge naan kanben = Kal ellam....it was in my list to present and U had it !
Sadhanai as a movie has 3 songs which seem to be clear inspirations.

Athi mara poovidhu = aadaludan paadalai kettu

Oh vanambaadi = I actually associated with Maalai pozudhin... Pl clarify me... while playing the chords I sensed the similarities...

Will present more in the forthcoming days... I have some in Hindi
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S.Balaji
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject: Parakkum pandhu parakkum - Dhal ghaya dhin Reply with quote

One of the innovative works of MSV-TKR is Parakkum pandhu parakkam, a song of 1964 release Panakkara kudumbam, directed by T.R.Ramanna. a nice refreshing thinking from the creative director and the song is being sung while playing Badminton … the song is a jewel in crown of the duo ..

Ramanna, later remade the story in Hindi as HUMJOLI, in 1970 composers being Lakshmikant-Pyarelal… and the same situation is retained here too…

LP have aesthetically taken the start Guitar strumming , the pallavi curves ( Mohanam ) of the original and the entry part …further developed into a typical Hindi flavor !

The Hindi version also is a beautiful melody very craftily built by LP … The majestic voice of TMS is being responded by the Nawab – Mohd Rafi Saheb ! and a delightful song is being served !!

The original is an extrordinary melody, the charanam is Agmark MSV , the end is signature MSV….. LP have done justification to the song however….

Dhal gaya dhin :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS1grQzXREw


Parakkum pandhu parakkum :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kFMG2nMl0I
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:36 pm    Post subject: Andru vandhadhum idhey nila - Ee Vennela Reply with quote

Andru vandhadhum adhey nila …created a sensation during 1963 for its novel approach , western , unique and a new refreshing sound for the listeners then …. Periya idathu Penn was a successful movie , remade in Telugu as SABASH SURI , staring N.T.R. during 1964 … the movie has a sweet song Ee VENNELA … which is an inspired one from Andru vandhadhum..l…the Guitar lead , the piano support, the rhythm, the pallavi tune … all will spontaneously take us to Andru vandhadhum… however, the Telugu song has few variations at the charanam and interludes too which makes it an interesting hearing !

Andru vandhadhum is a splendid composition , setting a new trend in tamil cinema… obvious that Telugu cinema musicians took cognizance of the musical trend shift and promptly incorporated to Telugu version…My wonder however is ….how far the Telugu music lovers are aware that the original is from a grand composition from MSV-TKR !!


Original
Andru vandhadhum adhey nila :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NZlXpwZXCg


Ee Vennela :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG9VP_vPz78
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