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MSV and western music

 
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:03 pm    Post subject: MSV and western music Reply with quote

Dear Members,
It is well known that The Great MSV did compose a few songs with a western touch. Skeptics used to jump at the chance and say that it was copied. I find the opportunity has now come for me to write what I feel about it and why my admiration has only grown more.
Some one, I think Leonardo DaVinci , once said
" A good artiste copies an art"
" A Clever one steals an art" I would like to add a
" GENIUS " modifies an art and still captures the hearts of the consumer. Needless to explain whom I am referring to. However I would like to expand on why he is a genius.

In the songs with a western tinge the one already quoted is
"Besame mucho" which is heard in the song "Anubavam pudhumai" On closer look it is obvious that only one bar of the song was used or had rather inspired him to build a complete song .
This is found in other songs as well.

"Strangers in the night" in' "Nalladu kannae",

"Sway."... in "Partha Gnabagam Illaiyo",

"Hang down your head Tom Dooley" in "Ulagamengum ore mozhi "

I would like to again stress the importance of the point that only one bar in each of the song is heard.
I think MSV ,as we know him to be a true music lover, wants to give it to us as a token of mutual respect and admiration for a fellow composer. Which by itself is a greatness of him.

Anybody who is interested in composing will agree that it is far easier to copy than modify and most often is impossible.

The other aspect which intrigues me is his capacity to change western rhythms to suit Tamil songs and do it so well that some orchestras feel threatened to render it when requested to perform.

BASANOVA: The section of the song "LilliMalarukkuKondattam" before returning to the melody. There are other songs as better example.
I suppose it is impossible to exhaust the list. I am not including SWING , JIVE, TWIST, BOOGIE etc.,'

WALTZ : is one used in many songs but I think it is not new Indian music especially the lullabies.

CHA CHA CHA is one which he has so wonderfully used in " Andru Vandadum Idhae Nila" Truly a great piece of improvisation and fit for analysis.

The BEGUINE: Has been used in many songs to a give a great effect. "Mayakkam Kalakkama ", "Uravu Endroru Sol Irundal" ' NinaikkaTherindhaManamae"....

TANGO: Basically appearing like a violent dance I wonder how he thought of using it for soft songs. It defies imagination. The song is "Ullam Enbadhu Ahmai"... The beat is well brought in the first few strokes in the bar in the beginning of the interlude and a small filler in the interludes of "Nejathai Alli Konjam Tha Tha Tha.'

In none of the above examples has he used the beats as heard in the original nor has he used the same instrumental arrangement.

A family was discovered where many of the members were not able to talk despite normal hearing and muscles required for talking. A genetic study revealed that they were lacking in the gene for Language function. This is also responsible for understanding music It is designated as FOX p2 gene.
Two thoughts crossed my mind on mentioning this fact. One is that those who still question the Master musician should get a Genetic study undertaken to see if they lack this gene. Only man, with the exception of the parrot ,which has something close, has been found to possess the gene. The other point is that seriously one should study the genetic make up of such Genius composers and find whether there is a gene responsible for composing music. How else can we explain the fact that so many who can sing beautifully and talk extensively about theory and recognize rare ragas find it impossible to compose just one song .
I stand corrected for any error of judgment.
I am thankful to the members who have encouraged me. I have really got a load off my chest which has been nagging me and as I could not vent my feelings due to pathetic paucity of knowledgeable listeners. I am covering a lot of ground in understanding some areas of music especially that of of MSV because of the postings by learned members in this forum. My thanks to them.
Chakravarthy
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madhuraman



Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1226
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:04 am    Post subject: Songs composed by MSV - TKR Reply with quote

Dear Dr. Chakravarthy,
True to your name you enjoy a fund of knowledge on western music and its varied genre. That makes your perception of MSV as a composer [ and for away from a mere copier] more authentic . Your examples amply demonstrate that he has been inspired such that, he is able to improve upon the reference. In the process of the broad analysis of this giant composer, you have aptly touched on 2 aspects of genes -the Fox p2 and the prospect of locating new gene profile in such music genius. Your poser as to why even the most endowed pundits on the raga nuances are unable to compose even a single song-- opens up a scope for deeper analysis of MSV.

There are excellent painters who can artistically reproduce letters and words on canvas or wood or any other surface, but can not build words of their own.

If arrangement and sequencing of swaras and their variables is like an art of word-building, then MSV is a poet - par excellence. Both these domains chosen for analogy call for rich and timely play of imagination. Without basically conceding this in-born creativity in MSV, trying to locate parallels and comparables in one's life time would just be an exercise in futility.

Thank you doctor for the reference to the innate parameter -THE GENE.

Warm regards Prof.K.Raman
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Ram



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 782

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:00 am    Post subject: Creativity at its Best !!! Reply with quote

Sway: (Paartha Nyabagam Illayo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsgL35RCGcc

Strangers in the Night - Frank Sinatra (Nalladhu Kanne)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAEQzVv_Itc

Tom Dooley (Ulagam Engum Ore Mozhi)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoBLGE2cCdU

Besame mucho (Aubhavam Pudhumai)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfByXFWxssk&feature=related

I would like to add two more in the list before I write my conclusion on this topic..

An old folk song which goes like this...
"Kathazhang KaattukkuLLE Vergodikka pOnaaLaam" inspired MSV to compose "Engeyum Eppodhum Sangeetham Santhosham" - An ultra modern stage number !

"Ragupathi Ragava Raja Ram" an inspiration for "Naan Oru Kaadhal Sanyasi" from "Thavappudhalvan".


My conclusion to this topic:

MSV respects and reciprocates the Music which induces him to compose a music, with his phenomenal "Creativity" !!!

Thank you dear Chakravarthy for a great write-up. Really a great analysis and expression !!!
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msvramki



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 418
Location: Chennai

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Doctor.,

As professor rightly said, your great degree of knowledge on Western
(or appreciate its dimensions) has thrown open a new Topic in the Forum
and we could feel our Masters top-of-the-order Creativity to present
a Western inspiration in an Indian way, in the most melodious way,
in a mesmerising way and in a way it will withstand time !!

Since this topic is, no doubt, going to be a huge basket of knowledge for the present and future generations, who do not even come near the
MSV's musical pleasure we all enjoy. ( Ofcourse, the losers are only them !)

The book we plan to release will have an exclusive chapter on this topic and your contribution is going to be a unique content in the same.

Pl continue your mission.. for ever ..

Ramki

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madhuraman



Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1226
Location: navimumbai

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:59 pm    Post subject: Songs composed by MSV - TKR Reply with quote

Dear Doctor,
While endorsing whatever Mr.Ramki has said of your contribution to the book on MSV's prowess, I just have onr thing to add.
Kindly see that you reserve some important items for the book, since our repeating all items from the site postings nay dampen the spirit of fresh presentation. Please make only hard copies of the material you wish to discuss in the book. I trust the spirit of my appeal is recognized.
Warm regards Prof.K.Raman Madurai
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Venkat



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 601
Location: Chennai, where MuSic liVes

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Doctor and Dear Professor,

A great write-up by taking a very complicated scenario...

Though Shri MSV has composed some of the songs inspired from others, the %-age is very very less when compared to others...
Not only that. These songs are not exactly copied. With only a bit of it, he has improvised very beautifully by his raaga, orchestration etc., and added more class to it...

If you see other composers, the degree of adaptation will be much more...

I would like to bring to your (rather everybody's) attention the following link: http://www.itwofs.com/
RDB touched almost 50.
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N Y MURALI



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 920
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:17 pm    Post subject: MSV WESTERN MUSIC Reply with quote

Mr. CHAKRAVARTHY

YOUR ARTICLE ABOUT THE 4 WESTERN SONGS WHICH INSPIRED MSV IS EXCELLENT. SINCE YOU HAVE GOOD KNOWLEDGE ABOUT WETERN MUSIC I WANTED TO SHARE SOME INFO WTIH YOU.

PLESE READ MY ARTICE I HAVE POSTED IN THE SECTION "SONGS COMPOSED BY MSV" ESPECIALLY PART 4. SINCE YOU KNOW WESTERN YOU GET INNMEDIATEL FIND OUT I AM TRYING TO CONVEY IN THAT POSTING. ONCE YOU READ THAT CALL ME IN MY MOBILE NO 98409 08843. I WILL QUOTE 1000 OF SONGS OF MSV IN THAT STYLE. I DO NOY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WESTERN THOUGH I KNOW LITTLE BIT OF CARNATIC AND I HAVE COMPOSED 3 ALBUMS IN DEVOTIONAL.

I THINK OUT OF THE 4 SONGS YOU HAVE QUOTATED "ULAGAMENGUM ORE MOZGI" SEEMS HAVE VERY CLOSE RESEMBLANCE. BUT THE WESTERN SONGS IS REPEATATION 4 LINE MELODIES WHEREAS MSV HAS IMROVISED THAT INSPIRATION WITH ADDITIONAL MELODIES THERER BY MAKING IT ALL TOGETHER DIFFERENT.

I WANT TO MEET YOU ONCE AND AND KNOW LIT BIT ABOUT WESTERN MUSIC.

ONCE AGAIN CONGRATS FOE THE EXC ARTICLE.

N Y MURALI
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