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Use of violins
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raghavan vasudevan
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Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 65
Location: Chennai

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:14 pm    Post subject: Use of violins Reply with quote

Dear Music Lovers.

Violins next to percussion instruments is the most important instrument that cine Music directors use sparilingly. In Indian cine music violins is the life blood I may put it.

M.S.Viswanathan is the first music director to have used maximum violins for a song. Enge Nimmadhi from PUDIYA PARAVAI. The song is a great hit.

Similarly with less no. of violins for the song Aru Maname Aru from the film ANDAVAN KATTALAI. the Master has given us a gem of song. If one sits and hear this song at one go for 1o times he will not get bored. Such is the way song has been composed and beautifully rendered.

The song has great lyrical quality rich in philosophical thoughts, mellifluously composed, beautifully rendered and equally well picturesed on Sivaji Ganesan. The enactment of the thespian for the song is indeed great. Can there be a better song rich in quality, rendition and composition and where the violins is the life blood of the song, there may not be any would be the answer of many. May be Shankar Jaikishan number Jane Kahan Gaye woh din from the film Mera Nam Joker sung by Mukesh equals MSV number but still MSV song is better.

Any amount of describing the quality of MSV compsotiions and passing accolades on the Master is insufficient as he IS BEYOND COMPARISON and his music has everlasting melody in them. .
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Venkat
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: Chennai, where MuSic liVes

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear All,

The usage of Violin by our Master is amazing.

The following two songs-la violin pesaratha kekalam:
1. Vaa nilaa nilaa alla... from Patnapravesam
2. Enakoru kaadali irukindral... from Muthana Muthallavo. Intha paatla Piano kooda pesum...

Apart from the above songs

Ponmagal vanthal
Ellorum nalam vaazha naan
Enge nimmathi
Aval paranthu ponale...

ippadi sollikonde pogalam...
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Mahesh
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S.Balaji
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonder why this thread is idle ! Emphatically say that MSV pioneered the art of using violin in tfm . His style was more of western compared to his predecessors . Incidentally, the Master created a virtual symphony through Enge nimmadhi , a stunning high quality violin demonstration during the prelude itself.
Mr. Ramamurthy, a venerable Violinist himself had supported well when the duo made wonders in the early 60s. Combined, they had given some unforgettable violin pieces … Soon, will cover some special songs in this category.
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raghavan vasudevan
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Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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Location: Chennai

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:46 pm    Post subject: Use of violins Reply with quote

Hallo alll,

Although on this topic initially i posted it and I am replying in response to Mr Balajee response.

I agree with Mr Balajee that MSV use of violins has shade of western style or pattern.

Without vilins composiing film music is a bit difficult as it is the most basic instrument besides the tabla.

Just listen Andavan Kattalaii number - Aru maname aru beautifully rendered by TMS. The violins used here are not too many may be below 20 nos but what a soothening effect it gives to the song. Take away the violins and imagine any other instrument in place, the song would not have been as melodious as with vuiolins.

Two important factor has made the song an immortal one - one Kanndasan lyriscs (full of philosaphical touch) and the other the violins.

Cana there be a better example where Violins have contributed to the enrichment of the song.
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Venkat
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr.Raghavan,
Aru maname aru is a luvly number.

Another movie with which MM MSV played with violin is Anbe Vaa.
If you listen to the songs the usage of violin will be extraordinary...
Not only the songs, but also during re-recording violin will be used profusely...
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madhuraman
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject: Use of Violins Reply with quote

Dear friends,
Despite the propensity of violins in cine music in general and of MSV / MSV-TKR PIECES, the postings in this thread are understandably low. What I mean is except the genuine experts among violinists none can meaningfully dwell at length on the ' exploits' of this instrument by MM. He is a wholesome gift of divinity that can never be squeezed in to artificial definitions that suffer from innate human limitations. At least to me he looks to be beyond my analytical limits. Yet, nothing wrong in our admiring him but how to admire the way we would like to, really places formidable impediments that may render analysis so weak except if we are able to touch up on the the fineness so very brilliantly conceived and executed.
But, what makes me respond is the general observation that MSV was the first ever MD to have used violins in that level and class. My submission is why violins alone ? Almost every instrument has been used by MSV just to give the right embellishment. If he has not used some instruments there are just 2 options.
1. He did not get the occasion to use it
2. The instrument was not invented in his period of work.
My strong suggestion is MSV uses anything that is RELEVANT.
WARM REGARDS Prof.K.Raman Madurai
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baroque
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Joined: 15 Feb 2007
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Location: San jose, CA, U.S.A

PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Nilavai paarthu vaanam..... SAVALE SAMALI!

WHAT A MIGHTY COMPOSITION!!

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/-rQgIq7k29.As1NMvHdW/

Arousing the feeling of reverence, depth, darkness, pathos & calmness!


enam theriyaadha oru bhayam aa yerukkum when I listen to this song but always listen the song back to back , don't feel like moving on!


3 decades + composition , I still feel profound love & awe for this song!


There is a Susheela solo CHITTU KURUVIKKENNA ...... evergreen composition. Love it! Maybe this evening I indulge this joyous beauty!

Now want to be in nilavai paarthu.... mysterious mood!

this time JJ teams up with Nadigar thilakam!


Vinatha.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:02 pm    Post subject: USE OF STRINGS[VIOLINS]by MSV Reply with quote

Dear Sir, I am happy to see that so many are interested in the subject of using violins in film music. In the earlier days of G.Ramanathan,T.G.Lingappa and many others these instruments were used but it was Great MSV who used it in such a way that they were recognized as a great force to express ones emotions. I would refer the violins to as "strings" as the complete section of this included violins, violas, cellos and the stand up bass which is usually plucked but is great when bowed as well.
I am wring this as a knee jerk reaction to this letter and so I may not be complete and acceptable.
He used them in the following unique ways .
Solo: western style and indian especially carnatic[ Van Nila Nila; Mella po malla po, etc.
The string were arranged to sound in parts that is different notes played simultaneously . They could sound totally different as if another song is being played but following the rules of harmony the effect was phenomenal[Engae Nimmadhee interlude is just one example]
Pizzicato or plucking the strings was used in a wonderful way[Part of the Intro in Ninaipadellam Nadandhuvittal;Answer to first vocal line in Vinnodu Vizhyodum.
He used the western movement of Andante a lilt with a gentle nudge the singer to keep the pulse palpable even if the song was very slow[ Neeyo Naano yar Nilavaef rom the film Mannadhi Mannan].
There was involvement of more instruments in a phrase[Intro ot Ninaipadellam Nadandhuvittal[ violins followed by--accordion-- mandolin --violin pizzicato-- flute- violins and altogether. There is much more regarding his capacity but I suppose this is ok for now. All the best MSV FANS that includes me.
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msvramki
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to you Dr. Chakravarthy !

You hit a sixer in the first ball itself, in the article on String section of Mellisai Mannar MSV !

We eagerly look for your more and more analysis on MSV's creation, which you were mentioning to me on phone.

Very nice to have you as part of our MSVClub !

Regards
Ramki
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Vatsan
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:15 pm    Post subject: Violin Reply with quote

Violin usage by MSV.....where to start and where to end.....one doesn't know......be it the peppy first interlude in 'Arambam indrE Agattum' with the Cello on the descent behind the violins......the racy (and seemingly never ending) pieces in 'Aye nAdOdi'.......the most innovative and undulating passage behind the pallavi in 'ninaithhAl sirippu varum'. In all the above cases the violin pieces have assumed different feel, shapes and form. There is this feeling of ....yes.....limitlessness !!!! Or do we tune into the violin passage in the charanam beginning of 'nALai intha vELai pArthhu' that flow through the 3 magnificently placed chords. Incredible imagination !!!! Please replay in your minds, the staccato violin pieces at the pallavi of 'malar ethu' and how it seems to wriggle out of the staccato 'passage' and emerges triumphantly to describe a more seamless route, as the tune itself starts flowering at 'un kaNgaL thAn endru solvEnadI'. These are testimonies to the master's innate sensitivity to the flow of music/ melody. Yet another testimony (out of the bazillion), the charanams of 'nALai intha vELai pArthhu' are pre-dominantly in table laced with double bongo beats. When the tune shakes of the frills acquired in the charanams and intends to rejoin the pallavi at 'thendralE un....', the tabla is taken off and the bongos assist the flow for its reunion with the pallavi. Such uncommon intrinsic feel and sensitivity for the flow !!! Wah...wah.....MSV-kku drishti kazhithhu pOdavum......I stepped into the tabla domain, stepping out of the violin domain...much like MSV's tunes and music........no rules !!!!

Talking of pizzicato plucks, I wonder how MSV managed to use those in place of the traditional rhythm instruments. The song is in 'padagOtti'. 'azhagu oru rAgam' immaculately rendered by PS but unfortunately overshadowed by other songs in the movie. Very unfortunate !!!! A song of a kind , pizzicato plucks come in for traditional rhythms, middle eastern music shows its face in a couple of phrasings in the charanams and does the disappearing act. MSV did not look at it as Middle Eastern, for him it was yet another phrasing. Do we need to wonder why everything seems to blend in so seamlessly in MSV's music ?!!? To him, Carnatic, Middle eastern, Western Classical, Hidustani are extensions of one and the same element in life....called music and therefore not different from one another !!!!

THanks MSV. If I am seeing accusatory fingers pointing at me (for digression), I am not at fault, blame MSV !!!!
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Vatsan
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Joined: 20 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:27 pm    Post subject: Some more.... Reply with quote

Only the water may know the joy of flowing, added to it, the joy of flowing through the 'unknown'. There is not much knowledge of what 'lies ahead', but the intent to flow lies unabated. The joy, as a listener to 'self-abnegate' and merge with the flow of MSV's compositions opens up new vistas in one's 'music listening' mind, caused by the glorious uncertainties, emnating from a 'MSV state of beingness' that knows no shackles and no rules and yet remains faithful to aesthetical decency.

I honestly do not know why I wrote the above passage but my heart felt the need to express it. Please request MSV to apologize on my behalf !!!!
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tvvraghavan
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Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Vatsan
What a way to delineate about Master's violins. His violin usage is so hard to explain as a mother's love, creation of the Universe, experience of God, a sincere Devotee's devotion and so on and so forth.

The simileys mentioned here can only be experienced and IMHO can never be explained even by the Great philologists....and that the language has a great barrier and becomes deficient when it comes to our Master's music.

This is exactly, why I consider the articles from Ram , Vatsan ,Balaji , Vinatha, NVS, SRS and the others ( apologies if I have missed anyone) a True Genius Work as they are able to overcome the malady of the language to explain the intricacies perse.

Your explanation gives a new dimension to the listening experience.

When talking about the violin usage , I always remember the postlude of "PONNEZHIL POOTHATHU.." when TMS and PS hum. I listen to song impatiently for this violin ensemble to experience the aforementioned divinty when scales change seamlessly..... It is truely a Godly experience !!!

Similarly, the ascending and descending scale changes in the Title score of "RAMAN THEDIYA SEETHAI.." are really worth mentioning !!

Well....Mr.MSVVAIDHY can throw some more light on the experiences that we both had while listening.

MSV Rules !!!
Venkat
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S.Balaji
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don’t forget that 4 stroke violin arrangement for ‘Adiyendi asattu Penne ’ , MSV wields like a magician . This song has some extraordinary violin work. Again, the prelude and interludes to ‘ Katru vandhal thalai saayum ’ heavy Piano , Guitar & violin overlapping ! that sudden solo @ the end of the 2nd interlude to ‘ kanpona pokkile ’ picture of delicacy. Those soul soothing prelude to ‘ Manidhan enbavan deivamagalam ’ .. its unsolved mystery to comprehend MSV’s creations !
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Ram
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Vatsan..

Great way to express the 'Unexplainable' beauties of MSV's violin orchestra.... I feel the subject is an ocean by itself.

He has done this way back before decades and its unfortunate on MSV's front that the perception of a common listener of TFM is wrong of what is considered as the dawn of orchestrations.

Hey Venky, thanks for your appreciation for my articles! Very Happy

What about 'Muthu NagaiyE' violin orchestration especially the pallavi during the end of the song!

Master craft!
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Vatsan
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:13 pm    Post subject: reply Reply with quote

Ram and Venkat, thanks for the good words. kuyilAga nAnirunthenna, kuralAga MSV-yin isai vanthAl thAn ezutha mudiyum Smile

Venkat, about philosophers not being able to write/explain/...whatever. The flower does not know as much about botany as a botanist , but what do we admire.....the unostentatious but yet attractive, no tomtomming but yet elegant, beautiful and yet such tender unpretentious class. MSV is the flower, the 'music knowledgeable' intellect, the botanist. When every other composer started with a creative burst and later out of insecurity started leaning on knowledge to "create", MSV alone continues to be "instinct" driven which calls for loads of innocence (musical instincts uncorrupted by traditional knowledge) and ofcourse, an uncommonly intimate relationship with beautiful music.....of any kind.
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