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"Missed Recognitions" - One More Important Factor.
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N Y MURALI



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 920
Location: CHENNAI

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEAR ALL

'NENJU PORUKKUDHILLYE INDHA NILAI KETTA MAANIDARIN NILAI KANDU'

WHAT PARTHAVI. AM I RIGHT?

N Y MURALI
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tvsankar



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 229

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear all,
MSV in mp3 vd vanginen.

Adhilum - Sivaji his, MGR Hits, kannadasan padal -

Ipadi than irukae thavira,

MSV padam pottu - MSV Hits enru parkavillai....

Enna oru kodumai????

With Love,
Usha Sankar.
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Venkat



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 601
Location: Chennai, where MuSic liVes

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr.Parthavi,
Pinnivitteergal.

Almost all the music programs in Jaya TV, if you see deeply in the background, our Master's photo will be in some corner or it will not be there. Enna oru kodumai.

Raagamaaliga... intha program innoru kodumai.
Sokkudhey manam... partha Ponguthey (kovathil) manam.

And regarding, KJY interview in Vijay TV:
Vizhiye Kathai...
Malare...
Deivam (MSV) thandha veedu (TFM Industry)...
Adhisaya raagam...
Manaivi amaivadhellam...
Kanchi pattuduthi...
Valamaana Bhoomiyil... (ippadi sollikonde pogalam)

These songs play a significant role not only in the history of TFM but also in the life history of KJY with respect to TFM.

In a recent "ENDRUM MSV" program, MSV praised KJY. A point to be noted.

As you said, SPB mentioning some sammandhame illadha songs. I too watched that program. After that I stopped seeing that program.

Talking about MSV in a program related to MSV is not important. One should mention / praise our Master anywhere at any point of time. That is the only gratitude they can show...

Enna seirathu... Really Nenju porukkudhillaye...
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Regards,
Mahesh
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Venkat



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 601
Location: Chennai, where MuSic liVes

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr.S.R.SHANKAR,
While I submitted my post, I didn't see yours.
As you said MSV has used PJ a lot instead of KJY.
Infact he has given excellent songs in Tamil and Malayalam for PJ.
Whenever I think of PJ, one malayalam song (Suprabatham from Pani Theeratha Veedu) will come to my mind.
It got him best singer National Award in the year 1972.
Kodumai ennanna, he will also not talk much about our Master.
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Damodaran Pachaiappan



Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 119
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr. P R Swami, Mr. Shankar, Professor, Mr. Venkat and Usha madam,

I sometimes wonder if there has been an institutional discrimination against MSV who is the most creative, most innovative and most prolific Indian film music composer of all times. TV channels, CD/DVD marketing wallahs, light music programmes and comperes et al seem to suffer from a perennial ailment of ingratitude. Until recently, to my limited knowledge, only PBS and Vani Jayaram have been openly and consistently appreciative of and grateful to the GREAT MUSICAL LEGEND. From time to time others also chime in.
I am not shocked to learn about KJY's interview. C'est la vie!!
One other reason why Mellisai Maamannar would have turned to PJ was that his Tamil pronunciation was far superior to that of KJY.
I was under the impression that SPB had changed for the better ( compared to the days when he repeatedly proclaimed that it was Ilayaraja who introduced Western music and all manner of such things to Tamil film industry ). Whilst he is absolutely free to praise any MD he likes, he should refrain from misinforming the public (with self-invested authority) as to the origin of MSV's music. There is a saying that even a lie when oft repeated may sound like the truth. This is how some of the wrong information about the greatness of some other MDs have come to stick. SPB should adhere to the truth which I hope he will in the future.
Perhaps, SPB is misquoting those so called origins in an attempt to establish his credentials on the grasp of musical knowledge. There is no need for him to do this, because it is universally agreed that he is one of the greatest singers of Indian film music and MSV fans and the great MSV himself will be the first to acknowledge this.

The irony is our own Master, the great MSV himself is never tired of praising all the singers (especially SPB and KJY) at the slightest pretext and concede all credit to a good song to the singers. As Mr. P R swami states, Nenju porukkudhillaye .....

The problem is - how do we wake up people who are pretending to be asleep?

Kaalathin velicham than ivargalin kangalai thirakka vendum!
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madhuraman



Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1226
Location: navimumbai

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:33 am    Post subject: Articles &Writings by Fans Reply with quote

Dear Dr and all friends,
The anguish over a planned neglect of MSV and efforts to distract opinion on the fine nuances that MSV had adapted in film music long before some of these so-called celebrities started walking around as kids, seems to go on unabated. Reasons are too well known. MSV cares a hoot whether or not some one bothers to mention his name or extend the credits due to him. Honestly, the people trying to ignore him are ignorant besides being indecent. But, a grateful man that MSV is, he recalls with delight, 'this was selected by a Post man, this was by a coffee boy, this merger was suggested by a peon at so and so's office" and so on. Why should he do it? He is honest. He does not want to rob anyone of anything. He is absolutely comfortable recalling the timely 'suggestion' from any one. MSV is known for extending the utmost respect for anyone. In a song situation, MSV wanted Kannadasan to change some words that were not respectful. Kannadasan retorted "Visu, you are decency -personified and would go to the extent of calling the town name Vijayawada as 'VIJAYAVANGA' . But, I do not wish to be unduly polite. You better compose with these words and record it". What a grand episode to portray MSV's humility! Whether or not some one wants to acknowledge MSV's grandeur, that someone makes a fortune by singing MSV songs if not MSV's praise. Certainly providence will 'give' them the due at the most appropriate moments in their lives. Let us keep our heads high that our man MSV stands magnificently tall by contribution and stays a Colossus in any act of innovation. Where are those Grand Enough to honour him? Let us not look for decency from those known for sycophancy. MSV still steals the show and stays in the limelight even if serious attempts are made to keep him in the dark. Read the Divine dictate in these happenings. Quality can never be curbed.
Warm regards Prof. K.Raman Madurai.
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Vatsan



Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:42 pm    Post subject: Insp. Reply with quote

Very true....all that the forumers have discussed here. To state facts, there cannot be a single composer who has not been inspired by another composer's works. Agreed. If examples are cited as factual observations, we would agree with those as well. What makes one's blood boil is 1. Making incorrect references for inspiration as if the sole idea is to pick on MSV and 2. Why does SPB offer profound apologies and why is there this tremendous hemming and hawing when an Ilaiayraja composition is taken up for the above "inspiration treatment". Example, "inji iduppazhagi" is certainly more than inspired from SD Burman's "yeh dil diwAnA hai, dil to diwAnA hai" with even the charanams starting from the same swaram and headed in the same direction as SD Burman's original. When SPB quoted this example, there was an awful lot of apologetic remarks and face saving (for IR) remarks such as "IR would never do something like this ever, except Kamal requested IR to do so.." and so on.... The idea projected was that encroaching upon the IR territory with an accusation is almost blasphemous. How blasphemous this is.....several examples of inspiration from Hindi and from MSV's works can be cited. For instance, there was this song played last night "engE en Anarkali" from a Sivaji - Prabhu starrer, clearly more than an inspiration from "kallellAm mANikka", similar phrases, same raaga, and phrases with female humming almost close to those in the original. I sincerely wish some participant sings this song in the program. Would like to see if SPB side steps this or gives the song the "treatment".
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N Y MURALI



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 920
Location: CHENNAI

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HAI ALL

FORGET ILAYARAJA GETTING INSPIRATION FROM HINDI SONG. HE GOT INSPIRATION FROM MSV HIMSELF WHEN HE COMPOSED 'AZHAGU MALARADA' IN THE MOVIE VAIDEHI KATTHIRUNDAAL IN THE SAME RAAGA 'CHADDRAGOUNS' SINCE THE SITUATION WAS SAME A WIDOW SINGING FOR THE AGONY OF LOSING THE OTHER MATE.

IN FACT THE OTHERS SONG OF MSV WHICH INSPIRED HIM WAS 'ENGE NEEYO NAANUM ANGE UNNODU' IN NENJIRUUKKUM VARAI. THE SONG WAS COMPOSED IN THE RAAGA SINDHU BAIRAVI BY OUR MASTER AND ILAYARAJA SIMPLY FOLLOWED SUIT. I AM NAT SURE ABOUT THE SITUATION AS I HAVE NOT SEEN THE MOVIE. THE SONGS IS 'ENNA SOLLI NAAN EZHUDA EN MANNAVANIN MANAM KULIRA?' SUNG BY AN ACTRESS I THINK AVM RAJAN'S DAUGHTER. INFACT IF YOU WATCH THE LINES IT TELLS THE SAME SITUATION.

I READ THE INCIDENT THAT HAS HAPPENED DURING OUR MASTER PIONO CONCERT ORGANISED BY MSVTIMES. AT THAT TIME WHEN ILAYARAJA MENTIONED THAT HE WAS VERY MUCH MOVED BY THE SONG 'MAALAI POZHUDIN'. BUT HE AVOIDED MENTIONING THAT HE HAS ALSO COMPOSED A SONG WHICH ALSO BECAME A HIT FOR HIM. BECAUSE THEY ALWAYS LOOK FOR 'IMAGE'.

WHERE AS OUR MASTER IS VERY CANDID AND OPEN IN ADMITTING TO QUOTE WHAT INSPIRED HIM TO COMPOSE A PARTICULAR SONG. HE IS CHILD AT HEART. BUT PEOPLE INSTEAD UNDERSTANDING THAT 'KUZHANDAIYUM DEIVAMAGALAM' ARE LOOKING AT HIM CASUALLY.

EVEN AFTER CREATING WONDERS WITH THE SOUND GIVEN BY GOD HE IS VERY HUMBLE AND SAYS 'ISAI ENNUM SAAAGARATHIL NAAN ORU SIRU THULI'.

WHEREAS OTHER PEOPLE WHO DID NOT EVEN STOOD HALF OF HIS TIME IN THE FIELD BOAST THEMSELF BY TELLING 'PUDU RAAGAM PADAITHADALE NAANUM IRAIVANE' THEY ALSO DARE TO INFLLUNCE TO INCLUDE THIER PICTURE WHEN THE SONG IS PLAYED. THIS SHOWING OF THE PICTURE OF THE COMPOSER HAS NO RELEVANCE TO THE STORY.

WHEREAS OUR MASTER WAS SHOWN IN THE MOVIE ONLY AS A WORK HORSE. MOVIE 'SERVER SUNDARAM'

THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE

'IDHARKELLAM KAALAM BADHIL SOLLIYE AAGAVENDUM

N Y MURALI
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parthavi



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 705
Location: Chennai

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since some incidents of 'inspiration' have been mentioned, I would add a couple more. It is not my intention to disparage Ilayaraaja, who has made his mark in the field. But I am provoked by uncharitable comments on MSV's 'source' by self-serving 'musicians' like SPB. (It is another matter that SPB tried his hand at composing music and he was a disaster. Sridhr's 'Thudikum Karangal - I hope I got the name of the film correct - and Ananthu's 'Sigaram' will bear testimony to SPB's composing 'talents.' Sigaram could have fared much better at the box office, if only the music had been good. After all, it was about a Music Director and ironically, SPB acted the MD in the film! The song presented as a master piece of the MD turned out to be a banal number.I don't even recall the lines.)

Anyway, the topc is about 'Rajaa Sir,' as SPB would respectfully refer to him (a lot of people show a fear when they mention IR's name but they are comfortable while mentioning MSV, perhaps because of his friendly nature!)

There is an acclaimed song of IR ' Kanavu kaaNum vaazhkkai ellam' I don't recall the name of the film. But I remember to have had the same tune in a Hindi song, (the film is 'Upkaar' if I remember correctly) People like Mr. SR Shankar who are well versed in Hindi film songs can confirm or correct me.) But no one has mentioned this so far.

Take this song from Velaikkaaran:'Thottaththile paaththi katti paathththirukken paaththirukken.' Sing this whole pallavi once and then sing the pallavi of the following song from KSG's 'KaN KaNda Deivam' (Music: KVM)
'Kannukkutti kannukkutti, kaaLai kannukkutti kalyaaNa vayasu vandha chinnakkutti....'

Are not the two tunes exactly the same? There is not even one note difference. But perhaps, this is not copying, just a coincidence.

I would also like to share one more info. Many years ago, there was an interview of Mrs. Shyamala Balakrishnan, sister-in-law of Ms Padm aSubramaniam in the Tamil magazine 'Idhayam Pesugirathu.' She alleged tht she along with Ilayaraaja and Panchu Arunaachlam were collecting some folk songs and that IR and PA have used these songs in Annakkili, IR taking credit for the music and PA for lyrics! This was a shocking allegation but surprisingly no denial or clarification came from the accused. In fact, nothing further was written on this in that magazine. No other publication also picked up the thread.

This may or may not be true. But a few things are intriguing.This interview came several years after IR was established as the leading MD of the time.' Annakkili' was produced by PA and he introduced Raja in that film. To me, the lyrics appear to be too good to have been pened by PA! PA has not penned great lyrics either before or after Annakili. The only remarkable numbr was 'Ponnezhil puththathu' but the rumour has it that this was Kavignar's work and he had given the credit to PA, for some reason. (PA is related to Kavignar and has been taking down Kavignar's oral rendering of lyrics, for several years.)

We can come to our own conclusion. I have regards for IR and enjoy many of his compositions. But I am writing this because of the distorted coments of people like SPB though IR can't be blamed for these venomous comments by others.
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MSV, Un isai kettaal puvi asainthaadum, idhu iraivan arul aagum.
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Damodaran Pachaiappan



Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 119
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Ram,

AGREED.
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parthavi



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Mr.Ram. Your advice is well taken. I am sorry about commenting on other MDs. I half-realized my folly as I was writing my comments but alowed my instinct to overcome my thinking. Thanks for your moderated and soothing comments. Though you are young,you are wise.
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P Rengaswami (9381409380)
MSV, Un isai kettaal puvi asainthaadum, idhu iraivan arul aagum.
http://msv-music.blogspot.in/
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N Y MURALI



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 920
Location: CHENNAI

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEAR RAM,
I AGREE WITH YOU. WE COULD HAVE GONE LITTLE OVERBOARD. BUT THIS BASICALLY BECAUSE OF EMOTIONAL ATTACHEMENTS TOWARDS OUR GREAT MASTER THROUGH HIS MUSIC. BUT YOUR VIEW HIGHLIGHTS THAT AS HIS ARDENT FANS, WE ALSO SHOULD BEHAVE IN THE SAME WAY AS OUR MASTER DID ALL THOROUGH HIS LIFE. I REMEMBER THE WORDS UTTERED BY HIM. 'SANGEETHATHODA KONJAM INGIDHAMUM IRUKKA VENDUM.

THANKS FOR MODERATING OUR EMOTIONS. THAT IS WHY YOU ARE MODERATOR.

SORRY

REGARDS,

N Y MURALI
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madhuraman



Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1226
Location: navimumbai

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:41 am    Post subject: Articles &Writings by Fans Reply with quote

Dear Sir,
Normally I keep off voicing any opinion on write-ups unless they deliver some critical insight. Somehow your otburst on the on-goings eulogizing X Y Z [while neglecting MSV for all that he has given] seems to run off the border entering the fray held 'out of bounds' by those who believe in incisive punch without looking vituperative. Unfortunately, there is a clear dominance of emotion over logic. Why we suggest restraint is, people are ready to blame it on MSV, if they read something inconvenient to themselves. Let us keep two things in mind.
1 MSV is far above all these acts of aggrandisement for any end personal or otherwise. Let us not embarass him with ourway of bitter criticism of what hurts us.
2 All our approach to honour MSV must reflect highest traditions of expression - verbal .facial or any other, so that we do not give scope of any kind for any one to rope in MSV.
Certainly all of us have reasons to be agonized; but that shall not lend us vulnerable for criticism from quarters who have no better avocation to pursue.
'A man is as tall as his expositions reveal', shall be the adage that we stick to in driving home the points.
If I sound unacceptable, please pardon me for my intervention.
Thank you
Warm regards Prof.K.Raman Madurai.
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Venkat



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 601
Location: Chennai, where MuSic liVes

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear All,
Let us praise our Master's work. We need not blame others for their ignorance.

Even for me pala nerangalil, rathame kodhikkum... enna seiyarathu...

Not only as a musician, but also as a human being, our MM engeyo nirkiraar...

Dear Mr.Parthavi,

"There is an acclaimed song of IR ' Kanavu kaaNum vaazhkkai ellam' I don't recall the name of the film. But I remember to have had the same tune in a Hindi song, (the film is 'Upkaar' if I remember correctly) People like Mr. SR Shankar who are well versed in Hindi film songs can confirm or correct me.) But no one has mentioned this so far. "

This song is from the movie "Neengal Kettavai" rendered by KJY.
The original is from the movie "Upkaar" rendered by Manna Dey music by Kalyanji Anandji. I believe I am right...
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madhuraman



Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:13 am    Post subject: Articles &Writings by Fans Reply with quote

Dear Sister,
Easily one of the best posts on the subject that rightaway puts all ideas in a nutshell without long stretches of meandering arguments. To have used some lyric phrases to promote an idea, while sustaining brevity is fantastic to say the least . Please keep this spirit and start looking at the legends in your own way.
Warm regards Prof.K.Raman Madurai.
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