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Inspirations on other Composers from MSV's songs
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S.Balaji
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:12 pm    Post subject: Inspirations on other Composers from MSV's songs Reply with quote

Dear All

Of late, I have been doing analysis on various creations of MSV which apparently must have inspired other Composers which in turn they might have applied to create songs....

We all know MSV established a niche for situational songs which became a benchmark and reference point for future generation of MDs....

Through this thread, I wish to cover those tunes of MSV which have created an impact on various future songs....
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V Sivasankaran
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Balaji,

Looking forward to your detailed coverage.

Regards

V Sivasankaran
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:55 pm    Post subject: 1- NENJAM MARAPPADHILLAI and VAANUYARNDHA SOLAYILE Reply with quote

Before I start, wish to mention certain aspects …. Its human nature that the best of the songs always will be eternally registered in our mind and they will come out in another form some day or other…. Reason..we would have been deeply impacted by those for various reasons…Emotions, lyrics, the tune, the orchestration , the performance of the cast …. So when such a similar situational song is being inserted in a movie and the director wants the same impact… Can we say its copied ? No… These , to me are inspirations… By inspiration, the Composer takes only a loop, a small clue which he develops into another creation and finetunes it…

The success of the Composer is his ability to conceal the source but create a marvel….

Nenjam marappadhillai –

Well this is an iconic song , yearning of lovers , having lost their love , a tinge of sadness… Rather a case of failed love being reflected on the tune, composition and picturisation… Such songs become a benchmark, a reference point for future generation. Invariably or spontaneously, when a Director wants a tune which should capture the expression of a failed love, the composer in his subconscious mind thinks of Nenjam marappadhillai…

We all know how much of humangous efforts went into creating this tune….MSV himself mentions that it took close to a month to convince the creator Sridhar as this is a pivotal song…Haunting … So, this song became one of the very best of MSV-TKR’s creations….

So, it happened in the 1985 release movie IDHAYA KOVIL ,music by Ilayaraja .. Mohan, the hero, in isolation, thinks of his past life , the moments that he had spent with his lady love …This is the situation…

Now the pallavi…VAANUYARNDHA SOLAYILE … Its apparent that the start is obviously inspired from NENJAM MARAPPADHILLAI… why I am saying this ? Look at the pallavi of both the songs… A high pitch start typical characteristic of the original song and the similar situation..

Here is Nenjam marappadhillai :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONIVoAZymoM

Here is Vaanuyarndha Solayile :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW1fYqfEcT4


Last edited by S.Balaji on Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:22 am    Post subject: Ponnula ponnula pannina mookkuthee - Aha Mangala melam Reply with quote

The movie Chittukuruvi , released during 1978 and Ilayaraja is the Composer…The songs in the movie were very popular ..Coming to the song, I realized that there is a definite inspiration from old compositions in 2 songs… The song I am going to refer now is PONNULA PONNULA PANNINA MOOKKUTHEE…from the movie Chittukurivi composed by Ilayaraja .. so, whats the situation ? A village festive atmosphere with the Hero and Heroene celebrating…the point of reference here is the Hero trying to create a jolly mood , tease and make the heroine pleased on the forthcoming marriage proposal which they both are expected to have shortly…
I found the similarity in MSV-TKR song AHA MANGALA MELAM – Kai kodutha Deivam…. Look at the scene here…. Hero Sivaji Ganesan is about to get engaged with Savithri and a letter communication reveals this …so, K.R.Vijaya and SSR his friend exult in happiness and tease the Hero and make him cheerful…
Now on to the song notes…. The starting notes are with D2 swiftly coming down to G3 and R2…a typical musician may say that these are basically Mohana ragam swaras and the Composer had actually applied the raga in essence…No …the way the start has been structured and the pallavi end clearly reflect the inspiration which has been drawn out of Aha mangala melam… even there is a Shehnai piece coming in one interlude of Ponnula indicating the auspicious occasion ( which was the main instrument used in original song )…
Concluding, the song situation , the pallavi arrangement will make us think of the old creation … This again proves that for a situation song, the reference point will be an old famous song.. Whats so special on the old song ? can u express your happiness in any other musical format ?

Ponnula ponnula :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6JFofchDP0


Aha mangala melam :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCZ-cIZchh4


A small demo on the similarities :

https://soundcloud.com/user-2309600/ponnula-ponnula-aha-mangala-melam


Last edited by S.Balaji on Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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V Sivasankaran
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reminded of what MSV said in an Televison interview. Inspiration thapilla. Anna OLICHU VECHA YEDAM THERIYA KODUTH.

V Sivasankaran
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S.Balaji
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:06 am    Post subject: Ninaithen vandhai - Kinnathil then vadithu - Arabic Kadalora Reply with quote

This inspiration is basically out of an Arabic type theme song. That’s the core for the tune creation.. Composed by Ilayaraja in the movie Ilamai Oonjaladugiradhu, a dream song comes with Kamal Hassan – Jayachitra on Arabic costumes . So the start has to sound Arabic tone …Here comes the inspiration out of Ninaithen vandhai 100 vayadhu ( Kaval karan ) …Just hear the start for both …it’s the same G3 and M1 and P being used and swing back to G2 and N1 …. The reason being Ninaithen vandhai is a benchmark for such Arabic / Egyptian numbers and no wonder that any Composer invariably has to get influenced by the catchy tune .

Wait… the inspiration goes beyond the late 70s… even ARR seem to have enjoyed the flavor of the old song… So what he does ? Hear the prelude music of Arabic Kadaloram…or azagai kandene … You will get the answer yourself… Wife , a Muslim girl ,moves to Mumbai and joins her Husband , enjoying moments of privacy with a dancer in Arabic style on the background ….

A small demo comparing the 2 songs with Ninaithen vandhai :
https://soundcloud.com/user-2309600/ninaithen-vandhai-kinnathil

Ninaithen vandhai :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9fB7zcnruo

Kinnathil then vadithu :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR11h125yJU

Arabic Kadaloram :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8klcliT9G4


Last edited by S.Balaji on Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:15 pm    Post subject: Muthukkalo kangal - Sevvandhi pookalil seidha veedu Reply with quote

Directors Bharathi-Vasu are from Sridhar’s School. So when they decided to do a film, their thoughts must have gone back to the Muthukkalo kangal days, one of the top 100 of MSV from Nenjirukkum varai, a Sridhar creation . I get a feel that they were so influenced by the song that a tune that they would have dreamt of such a similar song in their movie.

So, it happened during 1983 for the movie MELLA PESUNGAL , the song being SEVVANDHI POOKALIL SEIDHA VEEDU , a duet , composer being Ilayaraja .

Now listen to the approach to the Pallavi … M1 P N2 P M1 R2 ….very similar to the notes of Muthukkalo Kangal except that MK starts with R2 as a glide towards M1. A vast portion of the Pallavi and even the 2nd interlude are very much reminiscent of the masterpiece creation , the original . Critics may argue that its on Madhyamavathi scale …Fine but the very approach clearly indicates that the Composer was largely inspired by the gracefulness of Muthukkalo kangal …

Sevvandhi pookalil, needless to mention, was very popular but not sure whether its being heard now but Muthukkalo kangal ??

MSV used to say…one leads to another… So, Aagaya gangai ..poonthen malar soodi , Kuyile kuyile ..poonguyile… all are by products of this ?


A small demo on the similarities between both :
https://soundcloud.com/user-2309600/muthukkalo-kangal-sevvandhi-pookalil-seidha-veedu

Here is the link

Sevvandhi pookali seidha veedu :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCdkj4jlygA

Muthukkalo kangal :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED0bwUuSQMg
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:59 am    Post subject: Enge nimmadhi - Devadhai Ilam Devi Reply with quote

Prof. A.S.Pragasam directed AAYIRAM NILAVE VAA – 1983 release featured Karthik – Sulakshana … Composer – Ilayaraja … The song which I am analyzing is DEVADHAI ILAM DEVI … a solo sung by SPB for Karthik, the hero … the tune and orchestration largely give the feel of immense sadness on a lost love relationship , missing something and yearning for peace …

I presume that the clue which Ilayaraja must have picked from Enge Nimmadhi must be the Eerie feel which was the essence of the original … One can visualize the omnipresence of something unnatural, unreal, mysterious, curious, abnormal, freakish, bizarre …or whatever you would chose to describe….

Look at the song picturisation of Devadhai Ilam Devi… and also Enge nimmadhi… similarities

The heavy chorus at the end of Enge nimmadhi being replicated in Devadhai too…

In the original the Hero tries to come out of the bitter past…the wife ( supposed to have died ) and trying to get solace through the new found love..
In the inspired version too …such similar theme…

Yes…Devadhai ilam was a popular number during the time of release ….

The approach to the pallavi clearly reflects the mind of Ilayaraja … application of M1 >> P >> M1 >> R2 …. Well..this is how the original takes off

Summing up….the sadness, yearning, screaming for peace….all are nothing but an inspiration out of Enge nimmadhi…

A small demo on the similarities and how the inspiration probably might have happened :

https://soundcloud.com/user-2309600/enge-nimmadhi-devadhai-ilam-devi

Enge nimmadhi :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUjFZsYl2Yw

Devadhai Ilam Devi :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dDumVt-iUU

One may see the feel in even Sangeedha megam ..then sindhum neram.. ( Udaya Geetham )
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:44 am    Post subject: KANGAL ENGE - MAALAYIL YAARO MANADHODU PESA Reply with quote

In the movie Karnan , the princess stumbles upon a majestic personality who is so charming, brave and valorous …. and is swayed by his attributes….she is dearly missing him and suffers from separation …Out of intense passion.. So what does she do ?? a scintillating Suddha dhanyasi scale KANGAL ENGE flows … This is how Devika expresses herself through that character …this song is arguably one of the very best illustration on Suddha dhanyasi and some shades of Abheri too…

Such tunes create deeper impact …I could realize its presence in the Ilayaraja composed MAALAYIL YAARO MANADHODU PESA… from the 1990 release Shatriyan , sung by Banupriya… the situation here is almost parallel to the Karnan episode …here too the female character is fascinated by the main protagonist Vijayakanth ( ASP ) …she falls into a deep passion and love for him and sings this number….

You ask any Ilayaraja devotee… He would immediately say with awe that …Maalayil yaaro is one of the astonishing creations of Ilayaraja in terms of the tune arrangement and the orchestration as well….

But the source ….yes ..it must be Kangal enge …why I am saying this…

Its not only the similar scenario but also the pallavi start….

KANGAL ENGE NENJAMUM ENGE KANDAPODHE SENDRANA ANGE
PNMP S S NS N M P P PMGM P PNPMG GM G N. S S

And the way Maalayil yaaro >>>> the same notes virtually !

My guess is … Ilayaraja must have got inspired by the expressive tune of Kangal enge as the character has to demonstrate her intense love and yearning to join hands with the warrior Hero ( and here too the hero is a top Police cop )…
Listen to
Maalayil yaaro….with Kangal enge….. and also

Thendrale …paatezudhu….and Kaavalindri vandhana enge…

You will get the answer

Kangal enge :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCO-xsCktVo


Maalayil yaaro :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSLIdYFa4f4
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Indha naadagam andha medayil - Vaigarayil vaigai karayil Reply with quote

I came across one interesting similarity....The 1982 release PAYANANGAL MUDIVADHILLAI ends on a sad note..the Hero ( Mohan ) suffers from a terminal disease , wants his lover ( Poornima ) to get wedded to another and live peacefully. Hence, he pretends to send confusing signals to her so that she will hate him and look for a better future . This severely impacts their love relationship..Consequently, the girl’s Father promptly gets her engaged to another .Coincidence that the guy happens to be the Doctor of the Hero …

So, a song has to be launched after the scene the girl’s Father proudly introduces the Bridegroom to Mohan …

Mohan realizes that his ploy had worked out successfully …sings a song ( that he is an established singer is another line of story )….

This was how the Director R.Sunderrajan must have narrated Ilayaraja to tune a situational song…

I am sure the stroll must have been running before the thoughts of Ilayaraja on the famous pre-climax scene in PAALUM PAZAMUM… Nadigar Thilagam ( still recovering from accidental blindness to his eyes ) in a sincere initiative, tries to engage his wife Saroja Devi ( unknowingly ) with his brother Prem Nazir… and he shares this prospect with her… Immediately , Saroja Devi bursts out with a tearful song INDHA NAADAGAM ANDHA MEDAYIL….

The situation in Payanangal is a virtual reverse climax of Palum pazamum …so, the climax seem to be an inspiration

Coming to the song Vaigarayil…. I would rather wish you all to first listen to the Virutham before Indha naadagam…followed by the Shehnai, the tune …. One will realize that IR had definitely got inspired out of it …

The pallavi and the charanam tune , the way the song reaches crescendo...very much reminiscent of the original masterpiece..

Ofcourse, the original is a Subha Pantuvarali Raga base which as usual the Composer goes out of the conventions of the raga… the inspired version too is from the same raga….

Sadness and helplessness is being expressed through an epic song…its natural that anybody will follow the path of the original…

R.Sundarrajan is a great narrator …he would extract the best of the songs through clear narration of the situation …. No wonder, he got some of the best of the songs in the 80s…

Link for INDHA NAADAGAM :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHnXtkPjDo0


Link for VAIGARAYIL :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcGx9zo2IfE
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:20 am    Post subject: Adi ennadi rakkamma - Adi Ye aathaa aathoramaa variyaa Reply with quote

You query a hardcore fan of MSV whose age range 55-60 , on which he/she considers as the most impactful song … I mean, a song which had been heard in patti thotti , village, rural, urban, metro … a very definition of monumental hit …the song was a craze , be it in a wedding hall , Temple, Tea shop, friends gathering , laundry shop, a rickshaw puller , Saloon …wherever you went… such was the madness the tune, the rhythm ,especially the Tabla beat created … any sane person on hearing it became insane and would dance involuntarily….I am referring to ADI ENNADI RAKKAMMA from Pattikada Pattanama, 1972 release..

And the song had tremendous influence on the next generation …

Nadigar Thilagam, a villager teases his darling girl J as both resort to heavy dancing…

So, how this phenomenon could have influenced another Composer ??

In Payangal Mudivadhillai, the Hero, a singer, gets star status and becomes part of every household…. So a song has to appear wherein the singer sings raucously in a discordant, inharmonious tone and the song becomes instant hit across the fan following…. As his lady love also hears it on recorder, she is instantly captivated and imagines that she is dancing with the hero… this was how I think the Director R.Sundarrajan must have briefed the situation to Ilayaraja, the Composer… In short, R.Sunderrajan must have requested IR that he should create a song which should be heard across the State , patti thotti….A sort of kuthu paadal.. He must have quoted everything but must have stopped short of mentioning the scintillating hit of 1972…

And the song that came out was ADI YE AATHAA AATHORAMAA VARIYAA ….

While the original is a village folk dance , here is a situation wherein in city, the lovers dance joyfully in the fashion of the early 80s... So accordingly, even the orchestration has been made western… the Tabla beats are being replaced by Drums, Lead Guitar etc to give an urban feel….yes ofcourse the start is with Tabla but Drums take over soon…

Look at the start…. Absolutely similar to Adi ennadi ….. the tune, the rhythm, the dance, the rousing reception that it gets from public… all clear inspiration from the original song of the year 1972…
The similarities are on the tune for the pallavi, the beat, the crowd pulling singing…..

The Composer is a genius…he cleverly replaces the folk instruments with western and increases the speed and takes the tune to very high levels … how do we generally express happiness ?? by dancing and singing loudly no ?? and the tune takes a new avatar through another song … Adiye manam nillunaa nikkadhadee ( Neengal kettavai ) , an Ilayaraja special..

Ok… anyone can simply replace the singing portion of Adi eh aathaa with Adi ennadi rakkamma and realize the truth…. The starting notes are SR2G2MSRGN3 etc ….. its ditto for both …. However, its only the pallavi lines…rest of the song is all vintage Ilayaraja ..full of energy letting loose the Guitar and Flute at will…The song was a huge hit …

The original was so tempting that after many many years , it resurfaces during 2006 in the form of Annanoda paattu ( Chandramukhi )…. Here the Composer Vidyasagar is a master craftsman…the presence of Prabhu must have inspired him to set tune in the same note of the original….as the song moves forward, the original itself appears by way of an instrumental and the entire group will be dancing cheerfully…..Here Vidyasagar sincerely confesses that he was indeed inspired by promptly playing the original…

A small demo on the similarities :

https://soundcloud.com/user-2309600/adi-ennadi-rakkamma-adi-ye-aatha-aathoramaa-vaariyaa


Adi ennadi rakkamma :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXm3lopuhXs

Adi ye Aaatha aathorama vaariya :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkTJXOAuld4

Annanoda paattu :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYdfF07Sa_Q
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S.Balaji
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:07 pm    Post subject: Paattukku paateduthu - Unna nambi nethiyile Reply with quote

Here is a song based on the theme of yearning of a woman, loneliness, thinking about her lover…basically a song set with a night effect….the situation here is that she has to convey her wishes and concerns to the other end….this must have been the summarizing the Director Devaraj-Mohan would have explained to Ilayaraja.. the song is from the movie CHITTUKURUVI , 1978 release… Sumitra was that woman and Shivakumar, the pair… with minimum instruments, the song came out exceedingly well and was an impactful creation …

Here is the song Unna nimbi nethiyile :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ibZksuZpCY

A careful hearing makes me immediately think of PAATTUKKU PAATEDUTHU…from PADAGOTTI , 1964 release , composed by Viswanathan-Ramamurthy, wherein there is one virtually similar situation… here its Saroja Devi, singing with a deep concern , the remoteness, desertedness, separation and looking forward to joining hands with MGR… again, it’s a night effect song…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0wt4dlM1DM

Both the songs are not tearful in nature…rather they reflect the sober mood only….

IR apparently must have got influenced by the start…. Virtually similar in notes !! …. Its an obvious inspiration…however, the song Unnai nimbi takes a different shape as the song moves on…it sounds more folkish while the original is more of a gentle melody like a sea breeze …. IR never would copy any tune…he would take clue from a song and would do aesthetic improvisations and create another wonder !!

The rest of the song is typical Ilayaraja...he is after all a great folk specialist ...he started his career through Annakili..

The opening notes of the original will be like…. M1 P D1…and R2G2….. One can hear the same format in the subsequent song….

I am not going to refer to another song , Pon maana thedi…tuned by Gangai Amaren…since GA himself confesses that he got heavily inspired ….

A small demo on the similarities between both :

https://soundcloud.com/user-2309600/paattukku-paateduthu-unna-nambi-nethiyile
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my friend Mr.Venkat Sridhar has synchronised the 2 songs.. Adi ennadi rakkamma and Adi ye aatha ..

He has loaded the original with the latter one beautifully...most of the places with matching !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvMGSuJvczc
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parthavi
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent analysis, Balaji.

Leave alone inspirations. Gangai Amaran has mentioned that the first line of Raasaaththi onnai (Vaidhehi Kaaththirunthal) was taken from the second line of 'singarap punnagai' (Madurai Veeran) He jocularly said, "Only if we copy the first line, it will be obvious. That's why we copied the second line."

You can listen to this in his spech during Subhasree Thanikachalam's program Vishwa-Rama-Dasan held to pay tribute to MSV, soon after his demise. GA's speech is from 2hrs 5 min to 2 hrs 10 minutes innthe youtube video given below. He mentions this particular point at 2-09 - 2-10. (The entire video is worth watching by MSV fans)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e21u6VDhyAw

I have observed that the prelude of 'sittukku chella sittukku' (Nallavanukku Nallavan) has a lot of similarity with the prelude of 'kanden kalyanap pen pondra megam; (Mayor Meenaksi), though the feel of the two songs are different. You can listen and judge for yourself. (Sometimes, I feel I may be imagining things!)

Kanden kalyanap pen pondra megam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMn0gg-LEtE

sittukku chella sittukku
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4G2j2DpHVM

Pl continue your analysis.
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S.Balaji
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Parthavi Sir,

Yes. I saw the GA video on Singara punngai = Rasathi unna.. It seems MGR had pointed out to Ilayaraja once he listened to the latter song !

On Kanden ..kalyana pen ... it appears , inspired from Hum Tum Ek ( Bobby )... So I wont give cr to MSV in case Sittukku sella happens to be an inspiration ...

Will be writing more on the inspirations during the forthcoming days... Tks for the feedback.
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