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ragasuda



Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 1532

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:06 am    Post subject: Forum Hub - discussion on Viswanathan Ramamurthi Reply with quote

[quote]அவளுக்கென்ன அழகிய முகம்
AVALUKKENNA AZHAGHIYA MUGAM

(Reference: 60 YEARS OF AVM by AVM Saravanan; MELLISAI MANNAR MSV by Ramani Mainthan; NAANUM INTHA NOOTRAANDUM by Valee; An article by Ganesh (Shankar Ganesh); An article by TKR; TV Interview by AVM Saravanan; and my own previous postings)
Dedicated to Mr. S.Ramaswamy who showed me how to type in Tamil.

Many of us have could have been immersed into sadness by recollecting our past from the song Vaarai En Thozhi Vaarayo. I thought we should now go for a ஜனரஞ்சக kind of song, and the song I have selected is Avalukkenna Azhagiya Mugam from AVM’s Server Sundram.

I had wanted to discuss about the split between MSV and TKR and the quality of the songs which they started to compose separately following the posting of the song Odum Megangale in Aayirathil Oruvan. Since I have missed the boat, I wish to revisit the issue, not centering on the same song Odum Megangale, but wish to discuss this ROCKING song from Server Sundram, which also has some background to their split.



M.S.Visvanathan and T.K.Ramamurthy were determined to be life-long partners. TKR and MSV had attended each other’s weddings. TKR was so close a friend to MSV that he played the role of bestman for the marriage of MSV. But this envious and holy alliance had to come to an unfortunate and sudden ending, only to disappoint the die hard fans of songs from the golden era of Tamil Film Music. That was truly an unfortunate event. As soon as they separated from each other, people started pointing fingers at the root cause of this event. Word went around that it was nothing but professional egoism swelling in both their heads that ultimately culminated in their bitter separation. Finally TKR himself has admitted that the separation was the price both had to pay for being too egoistic. True losers were we fans.

FORMATION OF THE MSV-TKR TEAM
TKR, as we are well informed, comes from a family of violinists. MSV had all along wanted to become an actor and a singer. After attempting small roles in dramas and movies, he ended up as assistant to a few MDs including S.M. Subbiah Naidu and later C.R. Subbaraman. There came a time when both TKR and MSV were working under C.R. Subbaraman. MSV was playing harmonium while TKR was playing violin. In 1952 C.R. Subbaraman met an unexpected death. At that point of time there were movies where C.R. Subbaraman was assigned to compose music, but as he suddenly passed away songs were not completed. MSV and TKR had to complete the remaining songs in them, including movies like Devadas and Kaathal. It has to be noted that both MSV and TKR never completed the work as official partners. They just happened to work together.

Then an idea dawned for MSV which he suggested to TKR. (There are conflicting versions on who invited who to team up. MSV claims it was he who had invited TKR, whilst TKR claims otherwise. Never mind that. They did team up) MSV quoted the great partnership between Shanker and Jaikishen in the north and how they were rocking the entire country with music they collectively created. MSV suggested such an alliance in the south by both of them teaming up. Initially TKR had refused saying that he was already contented with the huge income he was receiving from playing violin. But on the insistence of MSV, TKR finally agreed to pair up. The first movie they officially combined was PANAM, a movie by AL Seenivasan and directed by N.S.Krishnan. For the first time their names appeared as Visvanathan- Ramamurthy. Ramamurthy was seven years senior to MSV, but the placing of their names as Visvanathan- Ramamurthy was agreed upon by both parties on the advice of NSK. That was the sweet beginning of an era that lasted slightly more than a decade during which time MSV and TKR composed several hundred songs together. Although their initial days did bring good music, somehow they did not get a break. It was Kannadasan’s masterpiece Maalayitta Mangai that gave the first major break. Following Maalayitta Mangai their name and fame skyrocketed. Each film in which they composed carried some of the best gems. Given their talent and ability it was not surprising that many films also ran on the strength of their songs. Soon they were acknowledged as kings in light music, while KVM was making a name for himself as the undisputed king in classic and semi classic music.

MELLISAI MANNARGAL
At a special function MSV and TKR were each given the title of Mellisai Mannar. An effort was taken by the Madras Triplicane Cultural Academy to raise funds for its Kasthoori Sreenivasan Library by way of a music concert at the NKT Cultural Hall. It was supported and facilitated by the Hindu Group of Publications, especially Mr.T.M. Ramachandran, Director Sridhar and Chitralaya Gobu. The epoch making event was on 16 June 1963. It was our Sivaji Ganesan who had acted in so many films where MSV and TKR had provided heart melting songs, who officially granted the title of Mellisai Mannar to each of them. One may remember Sivaji Ganesan’s PAA series that carried songs that would be remembered and hummed forever. While speaking at the function, Nadikar Thilakam said “இசையினால் பயிர்கள் வளர்ந்து பெருக்கிறது என்பது உண்மையோ பொய்யோ எனக்குத் தெரியாது. ஆனால் விஸ்வநாதன் - ரம்மமூர்த்தியின் படல்களைக் கேட்டுக் கேட்டு என் உடல் பெருத்துவிட்டது. அவர்கள் பாட்டை அப்படி ரசிப்பவன் நான்."
Collectively they were called Mellisai Mannarkal. The combined music of MSV and TKR were penetrating the hearts of each and all light music lovers in Tamilnaadu.

The title was given at a function held on 16 June 1963. But within a short while MSV and TKR had to split with the release of Aayirathil Oruvan on 9 July 1965. In between there had been some tensed up developments that made them part separate ways, with they burning their bridges at their back. They had to split, owing to their own ego, and of course poisoning of their minds by “koothadikal” who derived sadistic satisfaction from a divided pair. Ego surfaced in both their hearts. It was already fermenting at its height in the movie Server Sundram.

SERVER SUNDRAM

The movie Server Sundram was a reproduction of a stage drama by K. Balachander. Krishnan Panchu who saw the drama went up the stage and announced that they had intention of making the drama into a movie, for which they paid an immediate advance. AVM too desired to produce this movie, but as Krishnan and Panchu pair had taken up the contract, AVM had to come into partnership with these twin directors in the production of this movie. This same pair directed the movie with the great K.Balachander writing the script. It was released on 11 December 1964. As it turned to be a successful hit, the movie was also made in Hindi and dubbed into Telugu. The movie showed how versatile an actor Nagesh could be. In this movie he balances himself as a good comedian in the first part and dramatically transforms into a serious performance, unbelievably superb! Thanks to the dialogue by K. Balachander and great direction by Krishnan – Panchu. In a rare appearance it was the late scholar Dr. Mu. Varatharajan who gave away the tokens of appreciation to those involved in the movie during the celebrations.

The advertisement for the movie was unique. In order to depict a server in a hotel, they took a still of Nagesh holding piles of cups and saucers. When the movie was completed, this scene that served as the trade mark for the film was not to be there. On the advice of AVM, the scene was quickly created, shot and slotted in. By this time Nagesh was already a rising star and emerging as a number one comedy actor. It was just one year ago that AVM Saravanan approached Nagesh for the movie Naanum Oru Penn. Nagesh demanded RS 10,00o for the movie. AVM Saravanan was decided not to go beyond RS 5,000. But it was only after a very lengthy discussion and persuasion that Nagesh finally settled for RS 6,000. In his parting message Nagesh told Saravanan in no uncertain words that the time would soon come when AVM would pay whatever rate he would demand for. He did very well in Naanum Oru Penn. AVM chettiyar who viewed the movie, saw the length of the movie and suggested trimming it further by removing a scene by Nagesh. Terlockchander, the Director objected on grounds of the super performance by Nagesh and fought for the retention of the scene, and the scene was retained. True enough, as Nagesh had rightly fore warned, it was in Server Sundram that Nagesh was able to dictate terms. Here he proved to be an actor who could play a diametrically opposite role to what he had been establishing in the past. Though an acclaimed comedian, in Server Sundram he proved to be an artist who could be a tear jerker. Personally speaking that was the first movie where I was moved by Nagesh. In Neerkumizhi he went higher, and in Major Chandrakanth he had was already at his peak as a character performer. The beginning of the revelation of the other side of Nagesh was certainly Server Sundram.

BIRTH OF THE LYRICS
Now we come to the birth of lyrics for the song, which laid some foundation for Valee during his own struggling days. One evening, as related by Valee himself in his book Naanum Intha Nootraandum, Valee had wanted to relax in an afternoon. He took some alcohol and was already floating high. At this wrong moment a right incident took place. To his surprise, a car came and parked it in front of his house from which one Thaadi Sundram, Secretary of Visvanathan- Ramamurthy alighted. He came bearing a message that Visvanathan wanted Valee to come over to a company and write a song that had to be composed immediately, and recorded the following morning. Valee casually enquired the name of the company and when being answered “AVM” he froze. Valee ceased to be his normal form and refused to move in the state he was in at that moment, all for fear of getting his name stained and loosing all future opportunities to pen lyrics. But that Thaadi Sundram was adamant in dragging Valee to AVM. Instead Valee convinced Sundram to take drink with him. After lapse of some time, Sadhan from Visvanathan’s music band came in another care- this time with the message that Directors Krishnan and Panchu were already waiting for Valee. It was a clear indication that pressure was mounting on Valee. As there was no other alternative, Valee took bath, sprayed perfume on his shirt and went along to the studio. As soon as Visvanathan’s eyes fell on Valee, he knew Valee was fully loaded. Directors Panchu and Krishnan also knew that Valee was fully loaded. To make it even worse, the smell of alcohol was spreading all over the room. In an attempt to suppress the smell, Visvanathan requested Valee to chew betel leaves, which Valee did.

Then they sat down to compose. As soon as Visvanathan provided the tune, Valee supplied the lyrics and within half an hour the lyrics and the tune were ready.

AVM Chettiyar came into the room to listen to the composition. As soon as he entered the room he complained of some unknown and unpleasant smell emitting from the room. He immediately requested for the lighting of incense sticks. After listening to the song, AVM gave his approval stamp. The tune and the lyrics were accepted by the big boss. That was one of the early lyrics of Valee, which was of an average work, given the floating situation he was in. But of course it was over shone by the fantastic music by the kings of light music, and the scene that followed in the movie.

TMS : அவளுக்கென்ன அழகிய முகம்
அவளுக்கென்ன அழகிய முகம்
அவளுக்கென்ன இளகிய மனம் நிலவுக்கென்ன
இரவினில் வரும் இரவுக்கென்ன
உறவுகள் தரும் உறவுக்கென்ன
உயிருள்ள வரை தொடர்ந்து வரும்

ஹோ ..அழகு ஒரு மேஜிக் டச்
ஹோ... ஆசை ஒரு காதல் ஸ்விட்ச்
ஹோ ..அழகு ஒரு மேஜிக் டச்
ஹோ... ஆசை ஒரு காதல் ஸ்விட்ச்
ஆயிரம் அழகியர் பார்த்ததுண்டு
ஆனால் அவள் போல் பார்த்ததில்லை
ஆயிரம் அழகியர் பார்த்ததுண்டு
ஆனால் அவள் போல் பார்த்ததில்லை
வா வா என்பதை விழியில் சொன்னாள்
மௌனம் என்றொரு மொழியில் சொன்னாள்

TMS : அவளுக்கென்ன அழகிய முகம்
அவளுக்கென்ன அழகிய முகம்
அவளுக்கென்ன இளகிய மனம் நிலவுக்கென்ன
இரவினில் வரும் இரவுக்கென்ன
உறவுகள் தரும் உறவுக்கென்ன
உயிருள்ள வரை தொடர்ந்து வரும்

LRE: அன்புக் காதலன் வந்தான் காற்றோடு
அவள் நாணத்தை மறந்தால் நேற்றோடு
அன்புக் காதலன் வந்தான் காற்றோடு
அவள் நாணத்தை மறந்தால் நேற்றோடு
அவன் அள்ளிஎடுத்தான் கையோடு
அவள் துள்ளி விழுந்தாள் கனிவோடு ..கனிவோடு

அவனுக்கென்ன இளகிய மனம் அவளுக்கென்ன
அழகிய முகம் நிலவுக்கென்ன
இரவினில் வரும் இரவுக்கென்ன
உறவுகள் தரும் உறவுக்கென்ன
உயிருள்ள வரை தொடர்ந்து வரும்

TMS: சிற்றிடை என்பது
LRE: முன்னழகு
TMS: சிறு நடை என்பது
LRE: பின்னழகு
TMS: சிற்றிடை என்பது
LRE: முன்னழகு
TMS: சிறு நடை என்பது
LRE : பின்னழகு
TMS: பூவில் பிறந்தது
LRE: கண்ணழகு
TMS: பொன்னில் விளைந்தது
LRE: பெண்ணழகு
TMS: பூவில் பிறந்தது
LRE: கண்ணழகு
TMS: பொன்னில் விளைந்தது
LRE: பெண்ணழகு
Both: லலலலல லலலலல லலலலல லலலலல

THE SCENE
AVM had wanted to show something different. AVM wanted to show to the movie goers in a very simple formula how a song is composed, recorded and finally picturised. The scene starts off with MSV giving the cue. TMS sings while MSV conducts the music. We can see Ganesh (of Shankar Ganesh pair) playing bongos in the front row. From here the next stage is shown. The song is played over the sound track in an open studio. All involved in the shooting are shown- cameramen, lights men dance master etc. Then Nagesh and his heroine are shown coming in performing lip movements and dance. The dance master is seen directing dance movements from a distance, outside the frame. And the one who appears as director in the song scene is S.V. Rangarao.

When the talented TMS is shown in the studio, he starts off by giving his own original voice to maintain his identity to the movie goers. But when the camera zooms on Nagesh, he sings in the voice of Nagesh. TMS could simply change his voice. Many thought that the second part of the song was sung by A.L. Ragavan. But it was the same TMS with his God given talents.

HEAVY CRITICISM
According to a TV interview by AVM Saravanan, no other Tamil movie had shown so much of shooting tricks in the studio. Therefore, some movie fans had complained that with the exposure of the tricks, they were no more able to take for reality what they were seeing in the movie. Server Sundram had shown the creation of storm, back projection, horse riding, rain etc. Earlier some movies had shown bits here and there on how movies are made. To mention movies of the prior period, I remember seeing Nam Iruvar, a movie of 1948, where T.K. Ramachandran appears on a scene depicting making of a movie. Later, in Vanambadi, a scene comes on how a playback song is recorded. But these were negligible compared to the greater details provided in Server Sundram. To cap it all, the song scene- Avalukkenna Azhagiya Mugam” by TMS and LR Eswary showed details of shooting of a song scene. It shows how a song is recorded and picturised later.

CRUX OF THE DISCUSSION
But one must understand that the M.Ds for the movie Server Sudnram were both Visvanathan and T.K. Ramamurthy. Just before this movie was being made, there was already a drift in their relationship and the cold war was fought within their hearts. MSV was already complaining to his closest aide in the field –Kannadasan (There is another song which I shall discuss later)

While relationship between MSV and TKR was becoming sour, Server Sundram was made. But in this song MSV alone was shown, with TKR not coming into the picture at all. TKR could not digest this event. Keen observers of the movie were already raising their eyebrows looking out for TKR. This was sounded and blown to TKR. Server Sundram became the last straw on the camel’s back. The storm in the cup was already there in Server Sundram. The official split between MSV and TKR took place after Aayirathil Oruvan. It was TKR who approached MSV and told him that he wanted to release himself from the team and compose separately, to which MSV did not refuse. So came the sad ending. (As bookings were already there earlier, they had to force themselves to cooperate for some time. Some of the songs they had worked together were in Aanandi and Kalankarai Vilakkam which paid credit to MSV).

Following the split between MSV and TKR, they started to compose songs for movies in their own separate and independent ways, still each retaining the title of MELLISAI MANNAR (no more mellaisai mannarkal) When they were working together, they had given more than 750 great songs. While MSV started off with NEE, TKR started off with SAADHU MIRANDAAL.

Much later, after the meteoric rise of MAESTRO Ilaiyaraja, both MSV and TKR decided to team up again. This is what TKR had to say "
எனக்கும் விஸ்வனாதனுக்கும் எந்த பேச்சும் இல்லை. உறவும் இல்லை. இப்படியே கிட்டத்தட்ட முப்பது வருடங்கள் கழிந்துவிட்ட நிலையில் விஸ்வநாதனிடம் இருந்து ஒரு போன். "அண்ணன் உங்களை நான் பார்க்கணும். நீங்களும் நானும் பழையப்படி இசை அமைக்கணும் என்று ஒரு தயாரிப்பாளர் விரும்புகிறார். வரட்டுமா? "என்று கேட்டார். "தாராளமாக வாருங்கள். நமக்குள் எந்த சண்டையுமில்லை. என்னமோ இப்படி ஆகிவிட்டது. அதை எல்லாம் மறந்து பழையப்படி வேலை செய்வோம் வாருங்கள்." என்றேன். எங்களை சேர்த்து வைத்தது வி. என். சுந்தர். "எங்கிருந்தோ வந்தான்" படத்திற்காக இசை அமைத்தோம். படம் சரியாக போகவில்லை. அப்புறம் நானும் எம். எஸ். வியும் மேடை நிகழ்ச்சிகளை இப்போதும் நிறைய செய்துக்கொண்டிருக்கிறோம். எனக்ளுக்குள் இப்போது நல்ல ஒற்றுமை இருக்கிறது. படங்கள் தானில்லை."

DISCUSSION POINTS- There are two schools of thought. The first school says that the best gems came when both of them were together. The second school says the split did not cause a dent in the quality, especially with MSV retaining the quality, while TKR was slowing down in stages. Please share your views. [/quote]
Dear friends,
Mr. Manisekaran has exhaustively discusses rare gems of Tamil film music in the thread Paadal Pirandha Kadhai. This thread gives valuable info on Tamil film music, composers, lyricis, etc. This time he has chosen the above song. Please go through it. It will be appreciated if we reciprocate by posting our opinions remarks suggestions there.
Raghavendran
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ragasuda



Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 1532

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:08 am    Post subject: Paadal Pirandha Kadhai Reply with quote

Dear friends,
I once again would like to state that the above posting is by Mr. Manisekaran and not by me. Our sincere appreciation goes to Mr. Manisekaran.
Raghavendran.
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sriramp



Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is very controversial topic. Yet I would dare to express my point of view, however this is just my understanding after reading through number of news articles, various forum topics.

Firstly, the background is very much different for these two great composers.

MSV -- grewup without father in abject poverty, self taught, self motivated and humble to everyone and tries to please every one. His passion to music is endless and his application of self taught classical music to film music is stellar even to genious like Balamurali Krishna.

TKR -- Well trained and extremely knowledgeble musician both in carnatic and western music.

There will be issues between any two partners of this background in any kind of business not just music. One being self made other with formal education.

Added to this, after listening to VR songs, MSV songs and TKR songs, I am of the strong opinion that TKR's contribution to orchestration is unquestionable by the way violins in VR songs always fill up any gaps in orchestration or by the way tier2 orchestration is recorded. During the days when people repeatedly watch movie for its songs, leading actors and directors exploited MSV's ability push and apply himself to change tunes/songs. But we should remember that being a very important leader in orchestration TKR would have found it extremely difficult to change orchestration with taking all the pressure from the unit (If I remember correctly it is only after AR Rahman that the film industry started paying the orchestration unit for number of hours spent instead of going by the completion of the song). To me, this is a utter time waste for a person like TKR and few other members in the unit where thay can make the same money else where during the same time.

This parternership was destined to split as long as actors and directors pushed MSV taking advantage of soft nature and humble background.
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Vatsan



Joined: 20 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:46 am    Post subject: MSV - TKR Reply with quote

Sriramp, TKR was not the arranger as you have mentioned though MSV songs sound different from MSV-TKR sonds and so do TKR songs !!! Smile We have spoken to a number of singers who worked with them and even orchestra members who played for MSV and TKR. I will simply paraphrase what they all stated.....TKR was always the elder brother who was the calming influence for MSV. In a song like engE nimmathi where there is a tri-part violin arrangement, where we expect TKR to have played the pivotal role, it was MSV who did the arrangement, as narrated by Abdul Hameed who present during the composing sessions. TKR, I was told offered the "touch up" or ensuring that the "sound" part of the entire song did not go overboard. There are occassions when both did the arrangement. On a lot of occassions, MSV used TKR as the lead violinist (when they formally worked together as Viswanathan Ramamurthy) on several occassions, as in 'kaN pOna pOkkilE'. There is a beautiful solo violin piece in the unedited version of the song that was played by TKR. If we follow the sequence of notes that the solo piece traverses and its "jagged" ending, the fact of who was behind stringing those notes together will be evident. That is a typical MSV flourish that we have seen is several songs after the separation, one of them being the starting combo piece in "malar ethu" in "avaLukkendru oru manam" which was reportedly played by Ilayaraja. PBS & TMS has often gone on record of how MSV always ensured that he was the origin point for all facets of a song, repeatedly. One thing I was told was that MSV often played out the tune to TKR before presenting it to the director. Mangalamurthy, the famous accordian player who was the MSV till the 70s after which Patrick Rosario took over endorses all the above thoughts.

Please note that I am not confronting you, merely stating what top artistes stated when I / my friends sought them out for this most intriguing facet of the combination MSV-TKR. TKR, I am sure did an overall quality check and recommended changes on the overall package. I believe, not once have MSV and TKR had a disagreement in this regard.
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sriramp



Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not suggest TKR as the arranger. As I said, I did not personally talk to anyone and I go by the news articles, forum topics and more than anything listening to VR, MSV and TKR songs few hundred times. The songs speak for themselves.

Lets see what LR Eswari had to say about TKR
http://www.thehindu.com/fr/2007/11/30/stories/2007113050470100.htm

"....There are songs which we’ve sung more than 100 times. And even if there were 30 violins playing in unison, TKR would turn around and say, ‘The third violin in the fourth row went wrong.’ Geniuses, I tell you! ”

MSV said the very same thing about the TKR's ability to trace a faulty violinist on a number recent stage peformances accompanying T K Ramamoorthy, TKR did not even object to MSV telling him as an lead violinist in thier unit.

TKR's great words on MSV

http://spbindia.blogspot.com/2007/11/our-spb-at-rotary-felicitation-ceremony.html

"He started off saying that HE (MSV) did everything but gave him the credit. He said that he was not one to talk much but given a violin he could play on for hours."

For me there is a distinct style in VR songs in the way violins being part of everything, MSV's style on the otherhand emphasizes more on Thalam/Rhythm more than the voilins. We can see this pattern immediately after thier split. Which was better than the other, for me the end song is what counts. (Infact i find VR's orchestration in most of PBS duets as monotonous, again that is my opinion).

Having said this, if T K Ramamoorthy had made so much difference to songs in VR era even with his solo violin or bells and whistles as you said, he would have objected to constant changing the songs and tunes that too if he did not get the due credit for his work however small it could have been. Not everyone would be passinate like MSV. Please note that more time the songs takes record the less money an artist makes those days. This could have easily seperated MSV and TKR; thats my point.
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madhuraman



Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1226
Location: navimumbai

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:13 pm    Post subject: MSV -TKR Reply with quote

Dear friends,
Only now I have seen these postings on the supremacy of the two partners petly called Music Twins, though they hail from independent settings. As on date, it is irrelevant as to who contributed better. But in all such episodes of human interaction, public interest can not be kept off for long. In fact the happenings behind the scene were really unknown and we the cine fans did not have the culture of media probes and hypes those days. One astonishing fact of this relationship has been that neither of them made any insinuations on the other. They went about their business in abject neutrality. May be those who orchestrated the inflation of egos between them failed to receive further diets fomenting disharmony. Oh great men they are [V-R], sustaining harmony in separation too.
As a music lover my conscience votes for MSV, for, it is his music that has kept my spirits alive though I have always listened to TKR's works as well. Some of the excellent pieces of MSV have not been paralleled by TKR's work. May be together they have carved out superior products, thanks to their super-additivity. On matters of meter and orchestration, definitely MSV has displayed vivid quality, or at least my limitations do not discern the same from elsewhere, Thank you all.
Warm regards Prof.K.Raman Madurai
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Mumbai
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:10 pm    Post subject: discussion on MSV/TKS COMPOSITION. Ragasuda Reply with quote

I am a new member and I was thrilled to see such a huge write up on the History of the duo. Especially by "Ragasuda". I wonder if the member was in the field to have so much material. It was well written and appeared authentic. My humble request to the member is to throw some light on the various instrumentalists who contributed in bringing out the genius of MSV/TKR.
In a recent function where MSV was honored TKS was also there[25-062008]. My pain that started following the split had vanished. Now the "split" is only a dream. Thanks to Mr Ramki who mentioned about this function and ensured that the msvtimes members were taken care of.
Chakravarthy
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ragasuda



Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 1532

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: discussion on MSV/TKS COMPOSITION. Ragasuda Reply with quote

[quote="chakravarthy"]I am a new member and I was thrilled to see such a huge write up on the History of the duo. Especially by "Ragasuda". I wonder if the member was in the field to have so much material. It was well written and appeared authentic. My humble request to the member is to throw some light on the various instrumentalists who contributed in bringing out the genius of MSV/TKR.
[/quote]
[quote]Dear friends,
Mr. Manisekaran has exhaustively discusses rare gems of Tamil film music in the thread Paadal Pirandha Kadhai. This thread gives valuable info on Tamil film music, composers, lyricis, etc. This time he has chosen the above song. Please go through it. It will be appreciated if we reciprocate by posting our opinions remarks suggestions there.
Raghavendran[/quote]
Dear Chakravarthy,
It shows your honesty in expressing your feelings on the article you've mentioned. As I had said there, it does not belong to me, but the outcome of hard work of Mr. Manisekaran, in another website. In fact there is a separate thread for Padalgal Palavidham, where songs of Tamil films are analysed. The present song in discussion is Thazhaiyam Poo Mudichu from the film Baga Pirivinai. Mr. T. Murali Srinivas is writing, since Mr. Manisekaran has stopped writing.
Raghavendran.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:19 pm    Post subject: Re: discussion on MSV/TKS COMPOSITION. Ragasuda Reply with quote

ragasuda wrote:
chakravarthy wrote:
I am a new member and I was thrilled to see such a huge write up on the History of the duo. Especially by "Ragasuda". I wonder if the member was in the field to have so much material. It was well written and appeared authentic. My humble request to the member is to throw some light on the various instrumentalists who contributed in bringing out the genius of MSV/TKR.

Quote:
Dear friends,
Mr. Manisekaran has exhaustively discusses rare gems of Tamil film music in the thread Paadal Pirandha Kadhai. This thread gives valuable info on Tamil film music, composers, lyricis, etc. This time he has chosen the above song. Please go through it. It will be appreciated if we reciprocate by posting our opinions remarks suggestions there.
Raghavendran

Dear Chakravarthy,
It shows your honesty in expressing your feelings on the article you've mentioned. As I had said there, it does not belong to me, but the outcome of hard work of Mr. Manisekaran, in another website. In fact there is a separate thread for Padalgal Palavidham, where songs of Tamil films are analysed. The present song in discussion is Thazhaiyam Poo Mudichu from the film Baga Pirivinai. Mr. T. Murali Srinivas is writing, since Mr. Manisekaran has stopped writing.
Raghavendran.

Dear Mr Raghavendran. Thank you for your reply. I did try registering in tfmpage. hub forum but there is some problem.Even to find out I have to log in which is precisely the problem. I will try again. It is a pity that Mr Manisekaran does not write anymore. I have read some of his write ups especially on Respected Mr T.G.Lingappa . Will keep in touch. Thanks once again.
Chakravarthy.
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ragasuda



Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 1532

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]Dear Mr Raghavendran. Thank you for your reply. I did try registering in tfmpage. hub forum but there is some problem.Even to find out I have to log in which is precisely the problem. I will try again. It is a pity that Mr Manisekaran does not write anymore. I have read some of his write ups especially on Respected Mr T.G.Lingappa . Will keep in touch. Thanks once again.
Chakravarthy.[/quote]
Dear Sri Chakravarthy,
I too face the problem for logging in there. When you input your user id and pw, you see a blank page coming out with some error message. But then, dont get disappointed. Once you get that error page, again to the main page, by typing www.forumhub.com, and then go to latest discussions. Then you will find out that you are logged in, by seeing the log out option with your user id.
Raghavendran.
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http://oldtamilfilms.blogspot.com/
http://mellisaititle.blogspot.com
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ragasuda wrote:
Quote:
Dear Mr Raghavendran. Thank you for your reply. I did try registering in tfmpage. hub forum but there is some problem.Even to find out I have to log in which is precisely the problem. I will try again. It is a pity that Mr Manisekaran does not write anymore. I have read some of his write ups especially on Respected Mr T.G.Lingappa . Will keep in touch. Thanks once again.
Chakravarthy.

Dear Sri Chakravarthy,
I too face the problem for logging in there. When you input your user id and pw, you see a blank page coming out with some error message. But then, dont get disappointed. Once you get that error page, again to the main page, by typing www.forumhub.com, and then go to latest discussions. Then you will find out that you are logged in, by seeing the log out option with your user id.
Raghavendran.

Dear Mr Raghavendran,
Thank you for the tip. I will be in Chennai for a few days and on return I will try the procedure and keep you posted. Music cuts across all barriers and no war has occurred due to music. Your interest has augmented this opinion of mine .God bless.
Chakravarthy
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parthavi



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 705
Location: Chennai

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr.Raghavendran,
Can you give me the website address where I can find Mr. Manisekaran's analysis?

On V-R partnership, I remember MSV once mentioning that it was NSK and SS Vasan who were instrumental in pairing them together. Even the name Viswanathan-Ramamurthy was sugested by SSV. When MSV insisted that TKR being senior to him, his name should appear first, SSV had remarked, "Let it be that Ramamurthy is sipporting you by standing behind you (avar periyavar endraal, avar un
gaLai pinnaal irundhu thaanguvathaaga vaiththuk koLLalaame!)
About their separation, I have felt that the duo could have dominated the industry for a longer period than MSV did. About TKR's contribution, once TMS said in a TV interview that TKR would play the meLakartha raagaas on his violin and MSV while listening to him, will get the inspiration for the tunes!

There was some difference in the patterns of music of the DUo and MSV. I had felt that the songs composed by the duo are better. There is no denying the fact that 1960-65 songs are the best of all Tamil film songs.

But I don't think that TKR's contribution cold have been in orchestration. TKR's orchestration in the songs composed by him has been very limited.
When tow people work together in the music field, it will be very difficult to pinpoint individual contribution. There was "synergy." As a manageent expert will say 1 + 1 is greater than two!

P R Swami (parthavi)
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