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sangathis in masters music
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s.r.sankaranarayanan
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Joined: 29 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:29 pm    Post subject: sangathis in masters music Reply with quote

HI MSV'ians,
I am a new member joining the fraternity "possessed' by

MSV.I wish to share some of my thoughts on MSV's compositions.What distinguishes his immortal compositions from others is particular use of
"sangathis".It is the sangatis in his songs which embedded on flat notes that add life,colour,tonal texture and makes the songs linger.Of course,in
the domain of creative film music,the lyric and the situatonal impact further enhances the depth(or is it,the other way).

To start the discussion,let us take a recent runaway number"suttum vizhi
sudare" from "gajini".It is the lyric resting on very flat santhams like
"thanthannaana thanthanna thanthannan thanthanna" and proceeds in similar ways.Simple tune,but definitely hearable.

Contrast this with "kadal raajjiyam enadhu" from "mannavan vandanadi"
.observe the first four lines in pallavi. very nearly similar santhams.
and recolect the song and feel yourself the intricatte sangathis dispersed
throuout theseline which make it wonder fully ornamental.
Look for one in line 2,"andha ka---d:al rajjiyam enadu"
and in line 3" idu m^^nAn maadathu nilavu"
and the crowning 4rh- enthan m~~^rbil nee vanthu ulavu.

i would like to hear such sangati laden beauties from the master from forum members.Hope this is a goodtopic to nostolgiate.

s.r.sankaranarayanan
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S.Balaji
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Joined: 10 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice topic Smile

The song which comes like a flash to me is Ammamma katru vandhu aadai thottu paadum from Vennira Aadai.
It has lots of gamakam & sangadhi.

An unbelievable composition but overshadowed by Enna enna varthaigalo / Kannan ennum manna perai .

Little Master of melody is our MSV Very Happy
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S.SAMPAT
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:22 pm    Post subject: Sangathis in MSV songs Reply with quote

Dear Mr.S.R.Sankaranarayan,

Well come to the MSV club. Thought provoking analysis. Yes. indeed u will appreciate more if u sing the song. Well done sankaranarayanji. Great Topic indeed. Keep it up. we are all with u. Pls go ahead with sangathis in MSV songs analysing many more songs.

Well done indeed.

Expecting many more from u.

regards
S.Sampat
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tvsankar
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Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 229

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear all,
Two more songs for this topic -- is this correct or not?

1.Ennai theriyuma ? Naan sirithu - Kudiyirndha koil

2. Ninaithathai nadathiyae mudipavan naan naan....


With Love,
Usha Sankar.
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vaidymsv
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Joined: 08 Nov 2006
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Location: Madras, India

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:31 pm    Post subject: Master of Sangathis! Reply with quote

Dear Sankaranarayanan,

Thank Heavens that you hv started the "Sangathi" topic. MSV's songs have always been dotted right thro' with Sangathis. A classy example will be Naan Unnai Azhaikavillai. As you had analysed the song Kadhal Raajiyam Enathu, listen to this song in which just a two letter word Naan (tamil) is stretched beyond infinite and it goes like na-------------aaaaaaa-----------nnnnnnn unnai azhaikavillai en uyirai azhaikiren.... Truely a master piece beyond compare and beyond anyone's imagination except the Creator Himself!!!

LONG LIVE MSV AND LONG LIVE YOU FOR HAVING STARTED THIS THREAD!
cheers
vaidy
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vaidymsv
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:48 pm    Post subject: Congrats Sharadha Reply with quote

Yeaaaaaaaaaaah it's your century Sharadha and congrats. May you score a triple century soon.
Cheers
Vaidy
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Venugopalan Soundararajan
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:16 pm    Post subject: Santhams. Reply with quote

Dear Sankaranarayanan & Others,

There are so many songs. But I would like to quote some important numbers:

1. Ponnonru Kanden - En Vizhiyil..il..il...il..il (Padithal Mattum Podhuma)
2. Naan Kavingnanumillai..ai..ai (from the same movie)
3. Ennammaa..aa..aa..aa, Sollammaa.aa..aa (Enga Maama)
4. Naanamoooooo Innum Naaaanamooooo (Aayirathil Oruvan)
5. Indhap Pun..nagai En..na Vilai..ai..ai (Deyvath Thai)
6. Oruvan Kaa..dhalannnnn Oruthi Kaa..dhaliiii (Vennira Aadai)
7. Ponnai Virumbum Booomiyileee Ennai Virumbum Ooruyireee (Aalaya Mani)

Venu Soundar
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Venugopalan Soundararajan
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:23 pm    Post subject: Vennira Aadai Reply with quote

Dear Saradha,

Congrats on your century (of course, I am nearing it too).

Regarding the Vennira Aadai songs, if you ask me to rank them, I will put “Ammamma” as the last but one (before “Aallith Thandu Kaalgal Eduthu Aattamaadidalaam”). No doubt, it is an excellent song – but all the songs of V’Aadai are of an extremely superior quality and “Ammamma” cannot come anywhere near “Enna Enna Vaarthaigalo” (not only for the Piano, but the total melody – manadhai varudum - of the song) and “Kannan Ennum Mannan Perai” (again a wonderful melody and fast paced).

Regards,
Venu Soundar
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Ram
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

saradhaa_sn wrote:
(by the way, it is my 100th post, first century)


vaidy wrote:
Yeaaaaaaaaaaah it's your century Sharadha and congrats. May you score a triple century soon.


Continue this special celebration for Saradha in the "Ranks and Promotions" section.... Very Happy

Cheers,
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Ram
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sangathis....

In the song "Androru Naal Athey Nilavil" another version (thanks to Venky for sharing that to me)..... in the stanza... Sangathi for the word "Andha"... unimaginable!!!

"Naa aa aaa aaaan Unnai Azhaikkavillai En Uyirai Azhaikkiren", myself and Vaidy enjoyed this great presentation for a single word, while we were driving on Adayar bridge. (Remember this Vaidy???)

(Quotes from movie "Padayappa", which will suit the Master MSV)

1. Wow.....What a man!!!

Even now in his latest Malayalam Album, the Sangathis were beautiful. Though I do not know the language, I was able to enjoy and appreciate it.

2. Vayasaanaalum Un (Isai'yin) Stylum Azhagum Maarave Illai !!!!
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vaidymsv
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:47 pm    Post subject: & the Grammy goes to Ammamma! Reply with quote

Dear Sharadha,

You are absolutely right & the Grammy goes to................. Ammamma! Great sangathis and as you said it's a song one ought to listen to with eyes closed and then see where MSV will take you to!!!!!! Fabulous song indeed. Visweshwaran (santoor) and I once listened to this song and he was amazed at the prelude and was clean bowled by MSV by the prelude itself!

Hey Ram,
How could I forget Naaaaaaaaa.....................nnnnnnnnnnnnnnn Unnai azhaikavillai? Both of us leterally went gaga over this song da and this song during the launch of msvtimes??? Remember we used to always talk about sangathis and I gave you one example of IR's Madai thiranthu Laughing Laughing Laughing Sangathianalum, melodiagattum, orchestration agattum-there's one universal undisputed factor and that's MSV!
Ram spoke to viswesh today and is doing fine.
Cheers
vaidy

Cheers
vaidy
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Vatsan
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Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:57 am    Post subject: sangathi Reply with quote

MSV's sangathis............are there any limits for the True Master?

PBS often told me that MSV used to get irritated with Kannadasan's short santhams (though they used to be pregnant with great ideas)...MSV used to tell KD that short and santhams with fixed meters did not challenge him enough. But wait.....take a look at how the master pitchforked in exciting and tasteful swirls, curves and brighas to embellish a short santham, something for which all other composers would have created a simplistic tune. kaNNUkku kulam Ethu.........average of 2 words per line and experience the how each word is stretched with variations each time the same word occurs...aNNan oru kOyil enrAl....sangathis galore...especially the SPB version. mArgazhi paniyil...from "muthhAna muthhallavO" ofcourse there was this other genius SPB who was allowed to squeeze in his bit as well. YOu will never be able to predict how the pallavi is going to be sung after each charanam. That particular song had 4 songs encapsulated. Did not conform to the usual structure....

We should open another topic for MSV's prowess for composing different tunes for the male and the female singer respectively...chandrodayam, sirippil undagum raagathhilE..., engiruntho aasaigal....so many more...

No limits to his aesthetics sponsored creative genius...the great instrument of the Creator....
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s.r.sankaranarayanan
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dEAR VATSAN ,

Interesting post.I think,we all agree that sangathis and the masters craft are inseperable.You have thrown a beatiful prspective for analysis.the mysterios aspect of such sangathis in his compositions confronts us every time we try to discern logically the mind(it is not the brain)behind the composition.Neverthless ,we should endevour to fathom out discernable patterns if one could.
in that way,this is trigger no 2;

Take the case of simple bisyllable santhams as pointed outby you.THe master works magic witin the syllable.period.

IN padigam or paasuram singing,singing of free format witout any rhythm
accompaniments,there is rule.

All the sangathis,swirls ,brigas etc should only be tailed to a"NEDIL"(the long syllable) and should not be attempted on "KURILS"(the short syllables)
If at all to be used,it can be an end ofthe syllable.

E.g

kannukku kulamedhu - in "kannukku" sangathi can be there at ku-although "kuril",an end syllable,note there is no NEDIL in this.
in "kulamedhu" recollect the strecth at nedil "e" and subsequent dhu(kuril)'
end syllable.

this rule
ionce came across from neyveli santhaanagopalns exposition on "virutham singing'.

wait.apply it to analysemasters sangathis. and whereall the master exceptionalises the rule successfully(hallmark of anycreative genius).

i hope,this can be one of the perspective tools.expecting a strem ofthougt processes.

By the way vatsan, how about disyllabillic short santhams

THANGATTIL MUGAMEDUTHU
SANTHANATHIL UDALEDUTHU song set in sivaranjani.stunnig sangathis and variations

bye for now.

s.r.sankaranarayanan
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Venugopalan Soundararajan
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:24 am    Post subject: Vennira Aadai Reply with quote

Dear Saradha & Vaidy,

You people are not understanding my point. I never demerited "Ammamma" and do agree its a great song. But as I already said, all the songs of "V'Aadai" are a 'cut above the rest'. According to me, "Enna Enna Vaarthaigalo" & "Kannan Ennum" are far superior songs than "Ammamma". You will have to close your eyes stronger and listen to these two songs to feel, enjoy & admire the melody in them.

Regarding the humming in "Alli Thandu", it is not 'duyo', but 'udli, udli' done wonderfully by the one and only M.S.Raju (the Mandolin player in MSV's troupe and who has done the konnakkol in MR Radha's voice in 'Neeye Unakku Enrum' in 'Bale Paandya").

Bye,
Venu Soundar
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Vatsan
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Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:56 pm    Post subject: Sangathis Reply with quote

Sankarnarayan, good post.
We are slowly moving into the realms of weaving wholesome melodies out of short santhams, which is even more interesting than MSV's sangathis.

What about 'mAthamO AvaNI' ? ithu manitha pOtta mettE alla !!!!
4 lines of the pallavi with only 2 words. How he takes off on 'nALilE nalla nAL' and then unpredictable 'minor' touch in the word 'nAyagan'. He could have composed the same tune for P Susheela's response as well, but then MSV likes to tune a response for it to sound like a response. 'nAlilE ondru thAn'....that is a killer touch. Now, we are drifting into another realm Smile
kAthhiruntha kaNgaLE, kathai aLantha nenjamE.......
beautiful sangathis adorn the tune when it is sung the second time at the start of the song. For kaN iraNdil veNNilA (PBS), MSV could have used the same tune as he did for the lines P Susheela sang. But no, he belongs to a different breed altogether, PBS' bit sounds like a true response through a different tune. And then, PBS reverts to singing the same lines with the tune that PSusheela started off with. This is as if meaning to say, look how I play around with notes and santhams. Yet another song, 'poyyilE piranthu poyyilE vaLarntha...'. When TMS responds in the pallavi.....you know the same old story Smile The pallavi for these songs 'sounds' as elaborate as chranams Smile

Faaaar too many facets of his melody making we can touch open and still feel that we have barely dealt with the tip of the iceberg.
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